So indeed the ‘beyond help, have weeded themselves out’.

I suppose my thought on that is that Lancaster knew of their history & may have acted sooner rather than waited until the 11th hr for it to sort itself out? I see SOME culpability here.

Either that, or he could have given these guys some/extra anger management treatment. Maybe he did, who knows?

Either way, England have been deprived of some people who might have benefited a squad already depleted by the exclusion of 2 Euro Players of the Yr. If Cip also gets dished, potentially that’s 1/4 of a team. Plus, in the latter’s case, IMO he’s (was?) the only ‘skilled’ player likely to replace Ford if the latter gets injured.

Regds ‘… my point had to do with SL picking 12T etc’, maybe I was ‘branching’ & had read too much into yr initial statement in respect of ‘ dwarf tossing’?

Took it as criticism of Johhno… & you’ve had my views on that for free! What a waste of effort!

I could likely respond better about ‘baiting’ & ‘vitriol’ if you gave specific e.g.s. From time to time I find comments similar to yours a bit too general.

Everyone is entitled to opinion in an open forum such as this. However, I see sometimes statements as being ‘big headed’ or attention seeking by some. If statements are made, then they ought to be backed up by something factual, or specific reasons, IMO. I don’t always find this to be the case, so I do at times query these.

In respect of Brighty. We’ve had some history, although I thought we’d kind of buried the hatchet… & not necessarily in each other’s heads?

I rarely comment on others perceived ideas of commentators but surely you must look at some things you write and question whether it was the right thing or not?

I actually completely agree with your earlier post to JK and often find logic in your arguments but too often they are somewhat vitriolic for me, you bait people like Brighty who only express opinion like yourself.

Please continue to post as I like the view you bring from the other side of the pond but it would be so much nicer if you could do so with slightly more regard for other opinion

Stu

I’m disappointed & have eventually become bored with your attention seeking antics & seeming use of this site as a platform for your ostentatious verbal gymnastics.

What this all has to do with rugby I can’t say, but do send me a sae & I’ll draw a picture that you can understand.

Or better still, maybe you could go Uni Challenge where the subject isn’t likely to be rugby. Right up your street I’d have thought.

Meantime you’ll have to grab your attention from elsewhere.. some Greek Sophist or other obscurantist, obfuscator, nit-picker or hair-splitter
perhaps?

Whether they’ll have any common is another matter of course.

Ignoring 2011, albeit we have two of the same culprits, and putting aside any comparison to Johnno, we should be going into camp with a relatively clean sheet and without the more combustible characters who could pick a fight with a mirror. That alone clearly won’t win us a world cup but it’s a start.

Not sure what my point had to do with SL picking 12T etc. Although while we’re on it I’ll have a major gripe if he makes it into the 31.

You are linking a concept with a result and pretending that they are linked, when common sense would suggest otherwise. Ah – common-sense – I should have known better…

You’re having another of your giraffes. You KNOW what I mean ol’ bean.

You’re suggesting Lancaster’s discipline is working with 2 just chucked out right before the biggest event for 4 yrs… & after only almost 4 yrs of pep talks on er, discipline?! Pretty funny I guess. That’s def worth a larf.

An even funnier 1. Bring back Johnno I say. His & Lanc’s track & dis records are almost identical! That’s a ‘non nuanced nonsense’ fact.

Ta, tah.

Well if these 2 aren’t up to it, then they won’t play. Likely Barritt & perhaps Cane will. NZ, though, is unlikely to see this ‘issue’ as a ‘dilemma’ in picking them or not. As you’re only as good as your last game/s, then ‘rep’ is unlikely to come into it.

But psychologically, McCaw’s and Carter’s ‘aura’ will, surely, initially at least, have some impact on the oppo. NZ has deliberately gone for exp in the ‘unique battlefield that is the World Cup’. My take on this is that obviously these ‘vets’ are less likely to fold than ‘young guns’ when the hair dryer’s turned up. Wasn’t this evidenced in Dublin last time when they keep discipline & shape until they prevailed & who but ‘over the hill’ Ritchie scored at Twickers not so long ago?

Besides they have plenty of ‘youth’ in guys like Retallic, Whitelock, Read, Franks, Savea, Arron Smith, Dagg & so on.

Whilst it’s true that, NZ have ‘failed to win the thing on foreign soil despite heading into almost every tournament as favourites’ (so far), is it really ‘a spectre that still hangs over them’? To paraphrase Joe Schmidt, ‘This is a distraction’. And anyway, weren’t there similar, throwaway (Campese copy cat like) ‘choker’ comments made until NZ won the last Cup? Don’t hear them so often now.

‘Oh, and France’. The oldest 1 since, ‘Your cheques in the post’? Well, NZ also put France out of 2 WC finals… but that’s all history now & again, a distraction.

It’s what happens on the day & there re no guarantees that anyone will win the competition, NZ included, but they must have at least as good a shout as anyone else.

However, I perceive it could be other outside issues, like cards, TMO or ref calls that could turn tight games, rather than ’causes for concern’ mentioned in this article.

We’ll see.

“But Lancaster’s ‘discipline’ ISN’T working. He’s picking the wrong guys with previous & is inviting trouble, surely lacking foresight.”

What makes you say that his discipline is not working? How can you measure this? You think England would have won the 6 Nations if, er, he had been less disciplined?

How has he invited trouble? Are you trying to link picking Easter, and Cipriani, (someone else also?)and this being the reason for some kind of comparative measure with teams under Johnson’s leadership?

Well, as alluded to elsewhere, surely there already IS distraction with indiscipline… & the WC hasn’t kicked off yet!

It’s always seemed to me that Johnno was unduly scapegoated for England’s going out in 2011.

And given that his & Lancaster’s records are similar, as are their conservative (&/or indecisive?) style of playing the game, surely this encapsulate a wider issue for England with the RFU’s picking their ‘type’ in the 1st place.

Johnno had NO managerial exp & had been out of the game for 5 yrs. Lancaster had no appreciable track record either @ Int’al level.

Because the latter swept out the old (whether they merited it or not) & talked ‘pride in the jersey’ etc shouldn’t fool anyone.

Don’t blame Lancaster for initially picking guys like 12trees, Barritt or Tui, for instance, but if they can’t cut it for whatever reason, what are they still doing hanging around after near 4 yrs? And what exactly is England’s ‘style’ anyway? Do his team’s skills match that of those of the SH, even S15? Aren’t these issues that should be of as much as, or more than, concern for discipline?

Discipline & pride are necessary of course, but more than than is needed to win a WC & that’s what’s at stake here.

I just don’t see an appreciable difference between Johnno & Lancaster as the only real determining factor, their track records, is razor thin.

As hosts England will have countrywide WC support, but will it be enough to win the thing?

And as Lancaster’s record ought to be of at least some concern for England, what price this ‘Rugby World Cup Progress Report’ then?