1. Scotland spoiled for choice in the centre
Vern Cotter chose to stick with his tried and tested World Cup partnership of Mark Bennett and Matt Scott and ignore the sparkling Premiership form of Duncan Taylor against England but on Saturday against Wales we saw further proof that Taylor is one of the most improved players around.
Matt Scott was injured for the game at the Principality Stadium and one man’s loss turned out to be another’s gain. Taking the chance with both hands, Taylor took his form at Saracens onto the international stage.
He provided balance in attack and kept the Welsh defence honest but two moments of brilliance in the game will be what his performance is remembered for after the weekend.
When Tom James pounced on a loose ball and was clearly winning a foot race with Tommy Seymour, Taylor, using the touchline as a second defender, tracked across from 30 metres away and saved a certain try with an immaculate tackle. Then, even with the game all but lost, Taylor picked a sensational line and broke through a covering tackle to score a try that should give all Scotland fans hope that more is to come from the inside centre.
2. Jury still out on England’s best hooker
He might be England captain but surely even Dylan Hartley couldn’t have missed the impact that Jamie George made when he replaced the skipper at hooker on Sunday.
Hartley, in all honesty, had a poor game. The lineout was poor and while part of the blame has to be laid at the feet of George Kruis, who predictably continued to call the ball to himself, as captain Hartley needs to affect that and tell Kruis to change tact. And on a couple of occasions, the Northampton hooker didn’t throw straight.
George had a massive impact on the game. He is an extremely competent ball handler and is surprisingly quick as well as possessing fantastic core skills.
The line he chose for Owen Farrell’s try would have split most defences but the offload before hitting the floor would have split all of them. This is the sort of impact that Eddie Jones would like from his bench in the last 20 minutes but George could offer so much more for the other 60.
3. Up North
George North has come in for criticism recently, struggling to cross the whitewash for both club and country, but against Scotland we saw a hint of the Northampton Saints winger’s best form returning.
His try was a world class finish as he shrugged off four would-be tacklers, but his overall game in both attack and defence had a greater bearing on the result. The former Scarlet made 102 metres in total and as the old saying goes: form is temporary but class is permanent, and North has that in spades.
4. What next for Sexton?
Another game, another gruesome view of Johnny Sexton lying prostrate after suffering a head or neck injury. Sexton’s no fear attitude to tackling show no signs of changing, but there is much more that the Ireland coaching staff and referees could do to protect him from long-term damage.
Firstly, the Leinster fly-half needs a rest. Wales and Northampton took the necessary precautions with George North last year, and while every situation is different and many an expert will have examined Sexton and cleared him to play, he is clearly susceptible to these types of injuries.
That said, when he is on the field he needs protection from the officials as well. The Ireland fly-half was clearly a target for the French on Saturday and Yoann Maestri’s inexplicably late hit from behind, right in front of the referee, was only punished with a penalty when a yellow card – as the citing commissioner has since advised – should have been branded.
5. Use of the TMO is still not right
Two incidents over the weekend involving the TMO stick out like sore thumbs. Yoann Maestri blatant late smash on Johnny Sexton was directly in front of referee Jaco Peyper yet he chose to only award a penalty and not a yellow card.
The TMO, who can step in to suggest that foul play should be looked at, also kept quiet and Maestri, who has since been issued a warning by the citing commissioner for actions that fell ‘just short of a red card offence,’ continued on his merry way and will not be banned for the next match.
Then to the biggest talking point of the weekend and ‘that try’ in Cardiff. Take nothing away from Gareth Davies – his finish was supreme from distance – but there was more than a hint of suspicion around the try. Again, though, the referee has to take most of the blame with the question that he asked.
Focusing on whether there was a knock on when Jamie Roberts knocked the ball back was the extent of how far he thought he needed to go, so instead of the man in the van looking at the whole situation and disallowing a try for Davies being offside when Biggar kicked the ball, the try stood.
6. Eddie’s England eager again
For the first 120 minutes of Eddie Jones’ reign as head coach, England had looked a bit languid and sloppy in what they were trying to achieve whilst showing glimpses of what the new regime are trying to put in place but in Rome on Sunday, for the final 40 minutes at least, the red rose showed signs that it could blossom again.
A turgid first half littered with ill-discipline and handling errors was soon forgotten as Danny Care, George Ford and Owen Farrell proceeded to open up the Italian defence at will and England scored 29 unanswered points in the process. The strangest sight, however, was the massive grin on the faces of most England players, as they actually looked like the weight of the rugby world wasn’t on their shoulders for once.
With his own entertaining persona in front of the camera, Jones is taking some of the media glare off his players, letting his charges get on with the more important issue of winning Test matches. It remains early days, but there are plenty of positives to take.
By Andy Daniel
Follow Andy on Twitter (@scrum5ive)
Photo by: Patrick Khachfe / Onside Images
71 replies on “6 things we learned from the weekend’s rugby”
I’d agree with point 2. My issue with Hartley as captain was never his discipline, it was how can we leave Jamie George out of the starting line-up, given his form for Sarries?
If he was knocking on the door before the tournament, he’d surely have it kicked down for the Ireland game, were the man in front of him not the England captain.
England have suffered before with good players being held back behind the captain (notably Robshaw unable to get past former captain Lewis Moody before the 2011 World Cup), and it looks like it’s repeating itself.
Can I add a point 7 (and as boring as some may find, and realising I’ll be open to claims of bias)? That being that in the first two rounds who’d have guessed that the most creative back on show woukd be Owen Farrell? Playing out of position at 12, he has had direct hands in two tries, scored one himself and been the fulcrum pivot off which Joseph scored two of his three tries against Italy. Add into that the fact that George Ford isn’t at his best inside him, the fact he’s marshaled a stingy defence that hasn’t conceded a try (yet), and that his kicking from hand has been exemplary I don’t think it is too far fetched to suggest he should be one of the players of the first two rounds.
Really wasn’t looking forward to seeing Farrell at 12 but he’s been pretty decent. Vs Scotland I felt he was still trying to play as a 10 but he seemed to settle more at 12 vs Italy, running some good lines (particularly on the shoulder of George for his try) and not always passing but taking the ball up himself as well..
Think you over-play it somewhat though. Farrell created the try for Ford with a check and a lovely pass but he really wasn’t involved in any of JJ’s tries – one was the intercept, one the grubber from Care and the last was created by Kruis’ speed in defense causing the fumble, followed by a nice carry by Launchbury, scrum-half work from George and then passes from Care and Ford – Farrell wasn’t involved at all
As I say he ran a nice line for his try but the creation of that was entirely down to Ford playing flat and at speed, nicely passing to George and then the superb off-load from him to Farrell
His kicking has been good, his leading of the defensive line likewise. His personal tackling not so hot with only 80% of his tackles successful. He still goes too high and slides off tackles and is often lucky not to be penalised. He needs to alter his technique or he will have issues stopping the likes of Danty, Henshaw and Roberts
But overall, pleasantly suprised by him. I hope he continues to embrace his new position – if Ford starts firing it could be really good.
On Taylor, agree he looks good BUT in order to score that try let’s not discount the impact of Priestland. I’m not one of those who wants to abuse him, so this is just factual – Taylor was Priestland’s man in the defensive line but RP stepped out and allowed Taylor passed him. Taylor still did well to finish past Anscombe but most of the time that try would not have been scored as it was a simple defensive mistake rather than something worked to pull RP out of position.
7 – Man Of The Match is broken. Kruis was clearly the MOTM on Sunday. It was turgid stuff, only opened up by Ita giving up once the interception was given, but in such matches forwards normally make the yards and he did. Awarding it to Ben Youngs was just mental.
8 – Owen Farrel is the NH’s own Dan Carter with a touch of Kobe Bryant, Bobby Moore and McEnroe as well. There is no limit to the heights this man will achieve. Even playing in the backrow he would no doubt embarrass Rich McCaw.
Lovely sarcasm Brighty, but put your sensible head on now (and of course I haven’t made the claims that you seem to be implying I have about Faz) but give me the name of a player whose had a bigger impact in the games played so far than Faz? Billy Vunipola maybe, George North is coming on well, the French winger has done well. Danny Care? Stuart Hogg? Nope, i think Faz ia a) playing very well and b) should be making a few critics reassess.
I actually agree with Jez here – Farrell has been really good.
I’d probably have Roberts down as play of the tournament so far, and probably Kruis ahead of him too. But I can’t think of many more to be honest.
He’s been consistent in the basics and provided a couple of really good moments too. I think in comparison to any other “creative” back in the 6 nations that has him out in front. Maybe only Hogg is close as a player that falls into that bracket.
I can’t agree with Roberts as best simply because, although what he has done he has done very well, by goodness it’s been negative. At least Faz has added an attacking intent to his game.
Don’t think that matters. A prop can be a player on the championship if they prop well.
Roberts has done his job extremely well. Led the defensive line better than Farrell has. Carried better than Farrell has. The only thing Farrell does better is distribute, and we know Wales don’t ask Roberts to do that.
Farrell has been very good in his second distributer role, and personally I’m looking forward to seeing him back at 10 with Slade in the 12 channel.
I would argue, with the amount of tries conceded by Wales against England that Farrell has lead a better defence?
Don’t really think that is relevant. Scotland clearly played at a much better tempo (particularly in the first half) against Wales. Then we played Italy and they played Ireland – so hardly directly comparable.
Also I think the idea that one man is responsible for the entire defensive effort of the team is a bit far-fetched!
I’ll echo other sentiments on here though – I’ve been a Farrell detractor in the past (although I have also always maintained that he could be a good option for England at 12), but along with Kruis and Vunipola he has been one of England’s stand-out players so far this tournament.
“the idea that one man is responsible for the entire defensive effort of the team is a bit far-fetched” – then you don’t understand the abilities of Mr Owen “Dan Carter 2.0” Farrel Jamie.
For the record I think he’s fine. He’s not amazing. He’s still got that awesome tendency to do things that will get him sent off eventually, his tackling technique looks more like an assault and this sometimes means players slip through. He seems (seems, opinion, from observation) more intent on the big hurting hit than the tactical stop – this would fit in with the impression he gives of himself with his huge chunter, track record of cheap shots and bad man grins at the oppo. If some would rather him as their 12 than Jamie Roberts then they’re welcome as this will only create a weaker team for them. If Roberts played for Saracens he’d get far more plaudits from some – conversely if you play for Saracens then your game has no weaknesses such as that team has no weaknesses, as stated directly after the last rounds of the Euro cup by some Sarries fans.
I take that back – their one weakness is apparently that their players are so awesome that they’re weakened more than anyone else during the 6 nations, hence getting chewed up by Wasps.
At no point do I claim that Farrell is some sort of great rugby demi-god (after all Richard Hill takes that plaudits. )
What I have said, which if you could just look at the evidence dispationately instead of trotting out the same old lame stereotypical comments, is that in the two games so far, Farrell has been a stand out player, which he has been.
If you cannot at least agree with that sensible assertion them you really are daft.
Jamie are you sure? SL seemed sure that Barritt couple single handedly save a defence and therefore we could sacrafice having any attacking threat whatsoever in the 12 channel? SL looks to be correct, clearly from Englands first two 6 nations games that with him their defence has completely fallen apart.
Problem is Jez, is that your sensible assertion is only your opinion. I agree that he’s been good, but you are being completely hyperbolic. Your adoration for Farrell crops up all over this website, and you refuse to allow other people to have their opinions, whilst rising to every single bit of bait left out for you, hook, line, and sinker.
By saying Owen has been one of the best players so far I’m being hyperbolic? Ok yes its my opinion. And yes I’ll stick up for the guy when others opinions steer more towards the vitriolic, unfair and downright nasty. And yes he is a player I rate very highly.
But to suggest I am blind to his limitations or areas that require improvement far from it.
And if, as your suggesting some of the comments are just bait throwing then perhaps if they grew up and debated in a sensible and informed way I wouldn’t feel the need to defend the guy so vehemently.
“Grew up and debated in a sensible way” – “a man who can’t walk at 12 and a man with one hand at 13 .. or to put it another way, marginally better passing skills than the Welsh centres”.
Rate the Wales v Scotland game – “Not quite as shit as first game”
Cardiff – “Cardiff is a shit hole”
These are all grown up and sensible debating approaches? If you look at those comments they’re backed up whenever anyone quibbles with them, if anyone responds in kind, but a kind you don’t like, then it’s physical threats, usually with the same intention of shutting down the debate.
There is no debate with you Jez, there is only the repetition from you that Saracens players are the best in their position. Goode and Farrel continue that theme. I see Jamie George was vociferously defended by you and vociferously defended as better than Hartley recently as well. I wonder who he plays for?
In addition there was that hilarious debate where you tipped Farrel as the only NH 10 who would be able to approach or even usurp Carter’s crown while at the same time, and this is a common them, pointing out which Welsh player he is better than. This is hyperbole for a player who isn’t even viewed as the best 10 in England, 3rd or 4th best by some opinions. Opinions.
Once debating failed I tried satire to highlight the daftness, in my opinion, of an immovable opinion that Farrel is the best player in the 6 nations so far and that the player who many think has a tip at that is actually just “negative”, doesn’t lead the defence as well as Farrel, “made only 45cm and beat half a defender” in his MOTM performance, etc. Now that satire is annoying you as well.
Contrary opinions annoy you it would seem – you no doubt will disagree but your vehemence comes across as annoyance. It was the same when I asked whether Saracens had any weaknesses.
You’ll agree with me that it’s boring – you say white, I say black, you repeat white, etc. We’re not debating then, we’re just repeating entrenched statements until you start moaning about the manner of the debating. It’s just dead air so there is no point in carrying on with it, so no, we won’t have “Grew up and debated in a sensible way”, it’s not possible.
Oh so your allowed to be as sarcastic, ignorant rude or whatever as you like, but I can’t?
Oh well, whatever
One more thing – Itoje, please for the love of sanity leave the boy alone. Over the last few weeks I have heard pundits and fans talk about the new Martin Johnson, a “legend in the making” (seriously), a guy with a loooong and distinguished career ahead of him, a future Lions captain, etc.
He may well end up all of these things but one of the ways to stop this is to fete him as a world superstar already as a) he might crack b) he’ll be targetted and c) so many players have been there before but crap gets in the way like injuries or simply turning out to be no better than his current level. I obviously have no interest in him being amazing but he seems like a nice enough lad in interviews so I’d like to give him a fair shake and see if he is indeed a great player or the new Lawes/Vainikolo/Hape/Burgess/etc….. If Jones really is the “development man” that Eng fans think he is then it would seem that breaking Itoje in at a reasonable pace is better than throwing him in now and demanding he be the dominant 2nd row in the tournament.
Something else I learned this week – the IRFU couldn’t give a toss for Connaught, the poor sods.
Do agree here to a certain extent. I’d love the media to leave him alone and stop talking about him as a future England captain as if that is completely inevitable.
That being said, I’d start him at 6 against Ireland simply because right now he is our best option to win that game in my opinion. I don’t think England have the luxury of easing him in, in the same way that could happen if he was a Kiwi.
For once I agree, although he is also worth his place ahead of Lawes at the moment.
But true the level of expectation is too high. However, of all the players you’ve mentioned the one player best equipped to deal with that pressure is Maro. And he is playing at the best equipped club for him to handle that pressure, as the Saracens ethos in regards to their players is proven time and time again to bring on the attributes off and on the field for success. (Compare with Tuilagi at Tigers…)
This the bane of the 24 hour news cycle and newspaper websites vying for clicks. Boy it gets tiring.
I wish we’d get some proper analysis from the print media rather than constant hype over the next big thing or recycled press releases.
As an aside, for once Jez isn’t exaggerating when it come to Saracens looking after their players.
Glad I was sat down when I read your last sentence 😉
Now that we are out I would love Joe Schmidt to bring all the young guns into the starting 15 against England, I think England have a weak enough centre partnership by the standards of a top team and if we play McCloskey and Henshaw 12-13 that will cause them mayhem! But at the same time it will be our last chance of playing a match against a team of similar level as we play Scotland and Italy ( a level below) South Africa x3 New Zealand x2 and Australia all a level above and then Canada who are streets behind. Its a worry because this could affect our ranking for the RWC draw ( personally I think a draw for the RWC should be made 8-12 months out rather than 3 years out as we wouldnt have had a situation where AUS-ENG-WAL in the last RWC) Im not worried about our future as we have some cracking players coming through arguably the best since the Golden Era of POC and BOD with Ringrose (BOD 2.0 I expect to see him wearing 13 in the 6N 2017 baring Injury etc) and James Ryan (POC 2.0 current U20 captain, born leader and has captained every team he has ever player and 6ft 8inch and Imo if he keeps going the way he is we could have great matches between him and Itoje in the future) All I know is post RWC unlike previous years a raft of players have put there hands up but JS has had no time to bring them into the team like he would have had during the 6N and with all the retirements he has set his sights on mid table and will try and mould a team for the next 6N campaign and when you consider all the injuries we have ( the list is as long as Toners arm) we have drawn with Wales and lost by 1 pt away to France…isnt exactly catastrophic and if we beat England ( I doubt we will but you never know) and win our remaining matches people will look back at the campaign and the circumstances and schedule and will say ” You know what, that wasn’t that bad a campaign!”
Genuine question Cathal – apart from Bowe and now SOB who are Ireland missing through injuries?
It’ll be quite some feat if those players you list really are slot in replacements for two of the best ever players in the modern pro era. Personally I think it’s still way, way too early to be describing them as such.
I believe the RWC draw schedule has been changed? Ah, looks like it was mooted but now not been acted upon – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3269916/England-facing-nightmare-group-death-draw-2019-Rugby-World-Cup.html (of course, it’s all just a problem for England :-).
“people will look back at the campaign and the circumstances and schedule ” what schedule issues? What “circumstances”? I think it’s tenuous to even mention the injuries too much (just sounds like excuses, if they’re that bad then just give up, don’t wait until you lose and then claim them as an excuse) but the schedule is just not an issue at all. Is this like that convoluted world cup argument that some Irish fans made about them playing Fra 1 week before their semi but Arg only had to play the Girl Guides 2nd XV then had a months rest?
Personally the circumstances for me are clear – Ire are poor. Schmidt has them playing a poor gameplan that they’re not even equipped for at the moment – power, Sexton’s kicking and Schmidt’s grandiose/hilarious “power plays”. It was a risky spectacle when the players were there for it but the world cup and the warmups exposed it’s limitations massively once oppo sides switched on to it and BOD and then POC were gone.
Wales were awful in that 1st game yet still managed to score 16 unanswered points after the brain fart 1st 10, and this was in Dublin. One crappy box kick and Ire salvage a draw. France were so poor their forwards looked like they’d been picked up from the local school yet they still did a number on Ireland. One 5 min spell where they finally looked excited and it was game over.
Peter O’Mahony and Ian Henderson. Both i’d put money on being included in the lions squad (defiantly Henderson) Im not saying those two players will slot straight in and be as good but they will be as close as anyone else has managed, Garry Ringrose genuinely reminds be of BOD with the way he plays and his work rate and even the way he runs and I have no doubt he will be a star for Ireland, he has now broken into the Leinster team and is a regular starter when he was just a squad rotational player when the RWC happened. McCloskey is the form centre in Irish rugby right now and has justified being selected and my mouth is water with the thought of seeing McCloskey and Henshaw being together in the centre and at 23 and 22 respectively this could be a deadly partnership and with of course Ringrose in the frame it will become a very competitive position which is always good for the player holding the jersey.
If you look at Ireland the main reason they have lost both games was because of there scrum, both tries they have conceded against FRA and WAL where from 5M scrums where the ball squirts out unexpectedly and the opposition go over for a try. The issue for Ireland aside from this is there game plan..its shizzle its like watching GAA rather than Rugby. What I love is JS is using a defensive game plan….yet the stats show we have most miss tackles in the first two games and he just continues to play safe…say what you want but the fact that Fergus McFadden was on that field at any stage supports my claim. Irelands injury crisis is much larger than anyone thinks and anyone who knew anything about the irish rugby team would know how crucial it was to miss certain players given the lack of confidence we have going into the tournament and of course the retirement of POC.
What Ireland need to do is remove Payne from the centre ( move him to fullback or drop him all together) and play McCloskey,Marshall,Olding etc in at 12 and move Henshaw to 13 and then you have a strong attack because the only way you can get around teams is if you A. run straight and B. have a creative midfield…We run sideways and have a genuine fullback at 13.
The circumstances are awful, look at Englands schedule…they get to play 2 mediocre teams in a row…and didn’t even look that good in either game…we on the other hand had to play probably the two most physical teams back to back. When our scrum was working France literally did nothing and it was a case of when will Ireland break them down…then they brought on the first choice front row and boom. Wales play Ireland and then play Scotland and look pretty ordinary..if they had played the physical French team Ireland played where they wouldnt have had half as much ball would they have been as effective…doubt it.
Thanks for the info on the injuries Cathal. It’s painful but hey, loads of us are there…
Rhys Webb, Leigh Halfpenny, Scott Williams, Biggar missing 3/4s of Ire game….
Manu Tuilagi, Corbisiero, Slade, ….
Terrible bad luck for Ireland to have been hit worse than the others like this.
The stuff you say about scheduling is hilarious but it is exactly the same stuff I heard as excused for Ire getting hammered by Arg so not really surprising. It’s pure fantasy, but it’s not surprising – it’s pretty funny that by your account Ireland have the worst schedule and even, to go further, this puts them at a disadvantage compared to the other teams. The poor lambs. I don’t know why they don’t go to the 6 nations organising committee, an Irish organisation, with Irish chiefs, headquartered in Ireland, and get something done about this travesty of injustice. Still, at least when Ireland lose they can point to the schedule as a reason other than simply not being good enough. And the injuries.
“if they had played the physical French team Ireland played where they wouldnt have had half as much ball would they have been as effective…doubt it.” – the beauty of the 6 nations is that we will find that out soon enough give that, you know, every team has to play every other team so hard to see how Ire are/were at a disadvantage in that France game.
“The schedule is a huge issue we have to play the 3 thoughts teams one after the other and 2 within 6 days which I think is like animal cruelty.” Yeah, I know, it’s so tough. I think the Irish should pull out of the whole thing, it’s obvious it is all setup just to stop them winning the thing.
I know sarcasm is overused here but I tried and failed to come up with any sensible reply to this tin foil hat persecution complex.
If Wales’ crisis was as bad then why was everyone predicting a comfortable Wales win and why was everyone saying “Wales have a full deck to choose from” and the 3 England players you have mentioned have been very rarely played Manu Tuilagi I haven’t seen since England beat Italy in the 2014 6N and the other 2 are at best squad players and nowhere near as important as the players Ireland lost.(where you simply desperate to find any England player injured that is even a little bit important?)
The day Wales play Ireland,France,England one after another ( and a 6 day turn around between two of them) is they day you can actually judge and see the effect it had…oh wait ye did the 2014 and got smashed and held try-less in 2 of them and beat a France team that was pretending to play rugby… and that was with a 2 week rest in between…. And I don’t blame the injuries and the short turn around Ireland had as the sole reason for Ireland losing…it was the fact that Argentina had a 3 week rest period but the sole reason was Ireland taking a nap for the first 20 minutes of the match which was criminal…when Ireland woke up Ireland had only conceded 3 points until they fell to sleep again at the point where Madigan missed his kick to tie the score and the team realised that all hope was lost.
All I know is I may not be a complete expert but what I do know is I have a knowledge of the Irish team,provinces and the talent coming through then you ( A Welshman who obviously isn’t quite fond of the Irish team) does, so leave that to me and you worry about yourselves please and thanks!
Wales crisis? Who is talking about an injury crisis? There isn’t one. There’s the usual run of injuries, difference is that only one team seems to be using it as an excuse. I merely, as Ireland seem keen to do, listed the world class players we are missing at the moment.
Why was everyone predicting a comfortable Welsh win? Because they’re the better team.
“oh wait ye did the 2014 and got smashed and held try-less in 2 of them and beat a France team that was pretending to play rugby… and that was with a 2 week rest in between…” and yet, at no point, did anyone say that Wales lost due to schedule. That’s the key difference here. No excuses. We lost to better teams on those days or bad performances from our players or both. We don’t blame it on the schedule.
I have no beef with the Irish team other than I think they’re low on quality.
What I dislike is anyone who qualifies their losses as being down to a lot of factors other than the oppo being better, especially when that qualification usually comes after the fact – we found out we lost, so let’s trot out the injuries, schedule, etc. rather than admit we were second best.
If Ireland are so hard done by through scheduling then they should man up and leave the competition – once you’re in it then you agree to play it and shake hands when the better teams win, don’t trot out your excuses later. It’s a derisory attempt to take something away from the victor, the team that put loads of effort into winning the match and the tournament get a load of “yeah, but we had these injuries and the schedule was so punishing and johnny’s mammy had a funny turn…” whining crap in return. It’s the opposite of sport.
You think where low on quality because you don’t know half the players! Peter O’Mahony and Ian Henderson I’m telling you will be lions in 2017 no doubts on my mind what so ever ( unless they are injure or suspended of course!) Henshaw will also be a Lion and right now is up there with Roberts in a league of there own and at 22 is a great talent imo and his versatility would get him on the lions tour along with his talent. If Payne got more game time at full back people would finally see his quality and from what I’ve seen from his games at fullback with Ulster he would be an outside bet for the lions tours…at centre not a hope but at fullback you never know. From what we have seen so far I’m sure Stander would have a decent shout at the tour but it would be difficult as back row is probably the most competitive position(s) in the NH and with Gatland likely to be the coach, the 4 main welsh back row forwards are more or less already on the plane. Along with all the injuries the big issue for Ireland was the retirement of POC, he is one of the greatest leader I have ever seen and quite frankly I would follow him into hell…he is that good a leader. If Joe Schmidt would give the players on form there chances instead of picking players on reputation (i.e Rob Kearney) maybe you would see some of there qualities.
I see those players regularly in the Pro 12 and honestly, I don’t see what you are seeing. I think they’re very good players but at the elite level I don’t see them being world beaters. This is just an opinion – so I’ll clarify. When I said “I have no beef with the Irish team other than I think they’re low on quality.” I just meant the absolute top quality i.e. world class players who will take Ireland to top of the tree. I could be wrong on this as it’s hard to tell, but I don’t see Ireland’s problems as simply the wrong players being picked or too many being injured.
Because your not pay close enough attention obviously. Everyone in this country has slammed Schmidt for his selections so its clearly isn’t just me.
Come on – the whole Irish injuries thing is nonsense. There are three or four players out. If a test match starts with a team missing less than 5 players that would otherwise be in the 23 – I’d be pretty surprised. As Brighty points out, Wales probably still have the longest list and England are missing players too. Brookes is another that would likely start for England if fit.
And the schedule thing is just nonsense. Poor old England have got Ireland, followed by Wales and then France now. So I assume you feel really sorry for us too? Brutal scheduling really.
So I guess now we will see how well England cope won’t we!
3 or 4 players…. The fact you honestly think Wales and England have a longer injury list shows how little you actually know about Irish rugby….so please don’t embarrass yourself by pretending you actually do know stuff about the Ireland team.
The fact you’ve retorted to downgrading another persons knowledge before presenting any reasoned argument tells me all I need to know…
Irish rugby has a few injuries, and yes Healy, O’Mahoney and O’Brien are all good players. But injury excuses is test rugby just don’t stack up – every team has them and every team suffers from them at differing amounts at differing times.
Regularly bringing them up comes across as poor excuses.
Just calling a plank a plank.
Plus if you look at the Irish pack that played Wales we only had 3 of our first choice pack available whereas Wales had fielded probably the best pack they could have fielded…
“The fact you honestly think Wales and England have a longer injury list shows how little you actually know about Irish rugby” – The fact you think we care about the comparative length of the list shows how little you understand sport. Please don’t embarrass yourself by making poor excuses.
“Plus if you look at the Irish pack that played Wales we only had 3 of our first choice pack available whereas Wales had fielded probably the best pack they could have fielded…” How unfair of them. I think we should assess the relative injuries of each team before each match and give points. Ireland should have started on +10 before kickoff just to make it fair. I mean, the first XV of any side are unquestionably, scientifically the best XV available because no coach ever chooses other than the XV scientifically proven best players available. Except Lancaster. And Gatland. And any French coach. And Vern Cotter last year when he didn’t pick Barclay. And…..
If we don’t start this pts differential thing then any teams victory would only be accompanied by “but we didn’t have all of our best players”. The fact Wales didn’t win, when they had such an obvious advantage, must mean that Ireland are stunningly amazing.
What this all shows is Ireland are victims of there own success. I don’t know what I can say, your deluded if you think why I’m saying are excuses, they are facts.
No, it shows that **some** Irish fans won’t face up to losses, they’ll make up excuses. You’re deluded if you think I can’t spot an excuse, no matter what you call it.
Player is injured = fact
Players are injured = facts
Mentioning an injury list as part of after the fact explanation of results = excuses.
Specifically using 6Ns schedule as part of explaining why your team has/had it more difficult than others = a top level excuse of the highest order of whining.
Im not blaming the losses on injuries. Im saying they had a part to play but at the end of the day it was our poor finishing a boring predictable game plan that cost us ( particularly against France) Jared Payne had to play the whole second half with what was confirmed after the game a grade 1 tear to his hamstring which obviously would have effected him going forward. Mike Ross is the key man. If our scrum was so solid for 2 years + with Mike Ross there and ten suddenly he is missing and our scrum goes down significantly what is the common denominator? If we sort out our scrum we will be well on the way to recovery.
Looks like we’ve reached the end here Cathal. You have clearly repeated that schedule and injuries have had a sig. part in Ireland’s performance so far. I see that as excuses, you don’t. I don’t think you have to say it was the only reason for it to qualify as an excuse – repeatedly stating it as a sig. contribution sounds like an excuse to me and we’ve been around why a) I don’t see Ireland’s injuries as all that bad in the scheme of international rugby and b) why I see any mention of the schedule as a derisory and embarrassing excuse.
If Ireland get the players back then I look forward to them being awesome again. Providing the schedule doesn’t hold them back of course.
Thats because (Like Jacob) your knowledge of Irish rugby is severely limited. The fact you think our injuries aren’t that bad proves this. We have a 6 day turn around between the two most physical teams in the tournament with a team that already is carrying a load of injuries. if you seriously think this won’t effect the Irish performances then please shut up! Why do you think Novas kept his two best props on the bench? because he knew Ireland’s 6 day turn around would have an effect in the final 20 minutes…which of course it did and of course they also benched there best Scrum half which would also help.
If you want to reply please before you do, at least do a little bit of research on the Irish team and players and actually develop a bit of sense other wise please just shut up and stop wasting my time!
You do one of the things I dislike most in sport. You don’t enter into it fairly. When you lose you issue a load of reasons, over and above the play, why you lost. I’ll call that out wherever I see it. If I’m wasting your time then do please stop replying but I will not leave stupid incorrect statements alone. I know plenty about Irish rugby and the team. They don’t keep it secret. I know the schedule and I know that using that is an excuse is poor show.
Nah, it’s just because you are clueless. Your debating points are hilariously scattershot. You dance around until you get to the point where you just claim some special knowledge of Irish rugby that others couldn’t possibly understand. This is clearly BS and indicates your inability to comprehend that your opinion isn’t a fact. And then it’s just more and more whines and excuses about injuries and schedules, then denying you said they were reasons, then repeating them as whiney excuses again.
If you want to reply please do develop a coherent thread and don’t resort to abuse. Otherwise stop wasting my time.
I stopped reading when you called me clueless. Please…please just shut up. Your stupid replies and lack of knowledge on a team you claim to know so much about that you can make a solid opinion is cringe…please just shut up! you’ve wasted so much of my time!
That’s funny cos he accuses me of the same!!!
I think you two need to sit in the bath and have a magnum.
Hi Brighty, normaly you comment/debate in a relatively considered and balanced manner so I am shocked to see how cruelly you are dealing with Cathal. Surely you realise that his victimhood is all he has to cling to? It’s his comfort blanket. Without it he’s adrift in a cruel world of facts which have no place in his mind. Stripping away his victimhood is cruel in the exreme and probably wont work anyway. Find it in your heart to be kind to him and allow him his delusions.
Looks like he has called in his troops!
All I know is I’m obviously right. Surely I know slightly more about the Irish rugby system and community then a sheep sha…I mean welshman does. Ive just realised that Ive have waste so much energy by lift my fingers and typing words into the comment section so ill leave you geniuses discuss Irish rugby because I Irish rugby fan who writes articles in my local news paper about rugby does…sorry keep discussing ill waste my time doing better things then chatting at ye people. Happy 6N
Loving the banter top notch stuff!
Cathal (and I preface this by stating that I regulary disagree with Brighty’s opinions) if that last post is anything to go by please don’t give up your day job, because not only can you not make a sensible coherent argument you also can’t spell or construct sentences properly either!
Jacob, sorry to pull out your comment, which is the most level-headed in this thread, but re: “Poor old England have got Ireland, followed by Wales and then France now”, I think England have got a fantastic schedule this year.
Scotland and Italy, with my apologies for showing blatant disrespect to these teams, were two good warm-up games. To get Wales and Ireland, arguably the biggest threats in the tourny, at home, and after having those Scotland and Italy games to get the team drilled and playing cohesively together, is fortunate too.
Apologies – looks as thought my sarcasm about the schedule didn’t shine though. Point is – blaming the schedule in frankly quite embarrassing.
Not being funny but you say,’ the reason ireland lost is because of there scrum’. Is utter rubbish. They lost to France because they could not break down they’re defence and looked painfully one dimensional.
The injuries aren’t an excuse btw, if you look at 6N previews the majority of people couldn’t see Ireland winning the 6N because of there lengthy injury list. The schedule is a huge issue we have to play the 3 thoughts teams one after the other and 2 within 6 days which I think is like animal cruelty.
The scheduling is swings and roundabouts Cathal. Assuming Scotland and Italy remain “mediocre”, then Ireland should be plain sailing at this stage next year…
Might be!
Would this be the same Cathal who comments on planetrugby?
Duplicate?
Great stay there
I can’t believe Jamie and the gang haven’t written up on Danny Cipriani yet. Biggest story in the cycle
Certainly is very interesting, personally I can’t wait to see what he can do behind a pack that is good enough to give him some decent go forward ball.
You aren’t half demanding, eh Gerry? Is this because I’ve not been to training?!
Just kidding. Here you go: http://www.therugbyblog.com/richardsons-good-times-continue-to-roll-at-wasps
Just happened upon this via a twitter post, I found it made for quite difficult viewing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35559202
This is just awful Anarky. I wonder if a few court cases might be brewing?
I think I found it particularly poignant that it was the question about his future which seemed to trigger his black out moments. I think it’s quite clear to us, the viewer, that the future he’s faced with is one of uncertainty and probable heartache for him and his family. Very sad.
My son plays the game – having some very hard thoughts at the mo about what is best for him.
Agree with Jacob. After the dire line out against Italy EJ needs to play Itoje as a 3rd line out jumper against Ireland and Wales. His ball carrying abilities would be a bonus and restrict Robshaw to the bench whilst providing a little more bulk.
3 X reasons for Itoje:
1. Line out supremacy
2. Ball carrying
3. Extra bulk
4. Early chance to shine (50:50 whether that is a good thing or bad) by definition but his career would suggest he is ready.
That’s 4 reasons 🙂
Thanks for that Leon. Number 4 was an ‘I’ll be clever and add an afterthought’ moment. Doh!