52 thoughts on “Autumn Internationals 2014: England team to play Samoa”

1. 13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 20 caps)
   12. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 27 caps)

   “Oh the humanity!”

2. just isn’t that exciting to see that centre pairing lineup, let’s hope they prove a lot of people wrong.

3. This team will get a lot of criticism I’m sure, but 1-11 and 14-15 are more or less what most supporters would have wanted. It’s just that the post-Greenwood curse of the England centres continues!

   1. I think its the post-Tuilagi curse isn’t it?

      When he is wearing 13, everything seems a lot more simple.

      1. That’s true – Manu is has that 13 tattooed on his back. 12 is still wide open, though, but I’d love to see Ford/Eastmond/Manu – Tuilagi punching the holes for those two elusive runners to exploit.

4. No surprises then but good to see Webber and Haskell starting

   Which brings me on to something else to whinge about. I wish whoever it is in the RFU who continually leaks the England teams to the likes of the Grauniad or Torygraph would just bloody stop

   I like my teams to be a surprise.

   Think of the shock we’d have got with Farrell at 12 if we hadn’t already known that was going to happen

   1. Totally agree re the leaks. Really annoys me too!

5. Why do they announce a 23 man squad, and then the starting XV a few days later?

   It appears that as soon as the 23 come out, everyone knows what the starting XV will be.

6. Pablito, that would be the Webber and Haskell who started the game, 5 matches earlier, both performing really well, and then dropping back down the pecking order.

7. Really happy to see Haskell come in – top player.

   Spot on for most the team – other than the obvious. Farrell doesn’t look fit and Burrell is just a much better option that Barritt.

   When Tuilagi is back though – he goes straight back in and then the centres look more threatening.

8. I repeat my assertion from a previous thread:

   If George Ford manages to get this back line moving, attacking and scoring tries, with a midfield of Farrell and Barritt, he will be the GREATEST fly half in the history of Rugby. NO CONTEST.

   Better than Lynagh, Larkham, Jonny and Carter (all of whom had an excess of talent to play along side).

9. I’ll be there for the match and I’m happy with the Squad. Really would have liked to have seen Eastmond but I’m not opposed to Farrell at 12…….Thats right I said it.

   Should be a comfortable win………probably cursed it now.

   1. Is your second name Farrell?

10. What are the England wingers planning on doing on Saturday night !

    1. Watching the match

    2. A lot of (painful) tackling.

11. So SL has reverted to his original centre combination from the 2012 6n, with George taking over from Hodgson. Here’s hoping George has been working on his charge downs!

    Could be worse I suppose. Thank heavens Joel Tomkins is no longer available.

12. Tonkins had potential but Burges will be the 12 in the WC

    1. Really? The only potential I could see was a model in a life class.

    2. I’ve seen that a couple of times on this forum. Do you really think it’s realistic to see Burgess at inside centre in Lancaster’s World Cup squad, when he will have played at the very most maybe 20 games of Union, at club level, in a different position? It seems like a huge ask.

       1. Jason Robinson did it in shorter time, and made the Lions squad in the same year…but then that was Jason Robinson ;-p

          1. That’s the other thing – all the successful converts that I know of played at winger or fullback, which are probably the least technical positions. Or at least the ones where the rule changes make the least difference. I’d absolutely love for it to come true though. We need a new Jason Robinson – who doesn’t?

13. I have always beena fan of him in league as he is quick and nimble and able to find gaps. I have always been fond of having a smaller, quicker player at 12. Saying that though Burges and Tuilagi should be potent enough.

14. Well 5 in a row & new faces coming in have nothing to do with this team’s selection? Still it is Samoa, who, apart from being gathered from all 4 corners, 5 minutes ago, were threatening to go on strike a week ago! Hardly good head prep for an Int’al. Still, Interesting to see how the ‘new’ back row perform, esp the fairly hyped Haskell. Should he be @ open though? Not with Robshaw super-glued on I guess. Same for the ‘new’ ball carrier Morgan; an opportunity with the steaming Billy apparently having run out of puff. Shame about Eastmond though as this really doesn’t make sense to me. The 1 guy with potential midfield flair being dropped & the flair-less Farrell in, out of position, in an Int’al!? Seems harder for ‘Daddy’s Boy’ (ST’s words) to be dropped than it would be for Lord Lucan to turn up riding Shergar around the deck of the Mary Celeste holding the winning lottery tkt in his hand on Feb the 30th, to ref the final (I know it’s not Feb, but get the pic?)! Also, if Youngs & Ford (for Cip read Lord Lucan) are in, then why not also try, say, Ben Foden @ full back. I like Care ok & esp Brown, but maybe both could do with a break. And (again!) I would like to see Matt Mullan START! Marler’s alright, but maybe he should stick to composing music for this game as he ain’t really pulled up too many trees for me. So the back row & 1/2’s look ‘fresh’, but the midfield? Surely it’s a ‘bodge’ job… & does it reflect how Lancaster is increasingly being exposed as the CONSERVATIVE he really is @ heart?

    1. Nice one Don….love the bit about Lord Lucan/Daddy’s boy/Shergar………classic….At least Lucky Lucan did the decent thing and went overboard… Farrell won’t unless he’s pushed.

       Farrell is becoming to England what the P++shand Curse is to Wales.

    2. Don, Eastmond sustained a concussion against SA and has been undergoing the graduated return to play… and as a result he hasn’t been able to train this week. Which is why they’ve gone for Farrell at 12, an experiment they wanted to try at some stage anyway. I’d expect to see Eastmond back in for the Australia game.

15. Views on Webber for Hartley?
    Lineouts were 100% or thereabouts against NZ and SA. Against SA 2 tries came from a driving maul. Scrum has worked well.
    Is the reason to drop him a combination of (1) stamp against SA and (2) Webber’s better scrummaging? (Penalty try against NZ?)

16. what ever happened to Joel Tomkins? He’s like the Rick Astley of the rugby world!!

    1. He has been playing rugby league for england over the last few weeks. Bit of a puzzle really; He didn’t look too bad.

17. Don made the excellent comment about Farrell(our no 1 no 10 according to SL and Dad)playing out of position 10 months before rwc.What is the point??Can anyone provide a sensible answer?We continue to chop and change and no one on this blog has been able to see any pattern or style behind the pack other than ponderous set moves.I really thought we were going forward but I have lost a lot of belief

18. OK, it’s another repetition of many of the views above …. but I’m really pleased to see Haskell get a chance. When he’s been fully fit/on form (e.g. SA tour 2012, NZ tour 2014) I’ve felt he really added something to the back row over the ‘first choice’ on those occasions and has been unlucky not to feature more often.

    Silver lining to the cloud of 12 & 13 …. there’s going to be a lot of heavy Samoan traffic flying down the middle so we’ll probably need a fresh pairing for next week.

19. Jamie

    Ok, but didn’t Courtney have same v ABs. He was ok the following. Must have a harder nut, but still, no pt in risking brain damage (unless it’s Hartley maybe?). Health more important than rugger – just.

    1. He did, but they’ve changed their training schedule around this week – without going into boring detail, Lawes had a full day’s training + captain’s run, whereas Eastmond would have just had captain’s run.

       TBH Ford + Farrell is something they’ve been keen on trying at this level for a while so Eastmond’s head knock gives them a handy chance to do just that.

20. Prophet Enoch

    The oldest 1’s are the best Enoch. Besides, I don’t know any new’uns.
    Don’t know/see Preistland as well as you, but didn’t think he was quite that bad, altho wasn’t it, in the end, his missed kicks in the last WC that put Wales out?

21. So Billy V is out completely, and Wood is still in the squad. How is that fair? Hope Haskell has a cracker, and Lancaster realises that Wood is the weak link not Billy V.

22. Joseph
    Seems Hartley’s unfortunately got a ‘red mist’ problem. He should also have been pinged v NZ for the most obvious jersey pull in rugby history (I know, I know, I’ve been told a 1000 times not to exaggerate). It’s just that, when you get away with it (e.g. Neil Back in the H Cup), it’s a good wheeze, but when you don’t, it can cost the team. Gives Webber an opportunity to see what he can do & at the same time, it gives H a chance to get his thinking into gear – before his emotions.

23. So, having read all the above I think it fair to say that support for Lancaster is dwindling.

    Question: If any of you had the influence would you dump him now before he does any more damage or stick it out,given we have 11 months (just) before the WC begins?

    Personally I would hand him his p45 ASAP and headhunt like mad.
    Over to you………………

    1. What I cannot begin to understand is why the rfu gave him and all the other coaches 6 year contracts!That translates as no fear of losing my job I am secure.Very few of us have more than a few months notice at best.The fear of losing your job does motivate to make you perform.The English coaches don’t have that.I would give SL another year as they might still do something in rwc-remember 2007.If Burgess works at 12 + Tualangi and 2 on form wings and Ford or Cips we have a chance

24. Now now, let’s not over react here. I agree that the pairing of Farrell and Barritt isn’t my bag but Lancaster has been a breath of fresh air since coming in. It wasn’t too long ago that we were in the wilderness and now we are venting range at losing to New Zealand and South Africa by 3 points with the heart of our team missing. Perspective people… I think there is one main problem… missing Manu. We really miss him in the centres and in his absence we have really missed Burrell. I firmly believe you need a tackle breaker in one centre role to take the defenders attention away from the additional play maker. Barritt does many things well but he doesn’t do that which is what hindered Eastmond in the first two matches and the same will happen to Farrell on Saturday. Centres aren’t a problem in my mind – Eastmond/Tuilagi first choice and Twelvetrees/Burrell second choice with either deputising during injury. Simple.

25. Hi Paulo. I take your point but if we can all see what you are saying then surely Lancaster can too.

    If he can’t then he is in the wrong job. He picks the team (I think) ,so must stand or fall by his selections.
    As you say we have other options at 12 but he has ignored all the obvious choices and run the risk of painting himself into a very small corner if it goes belly up.

    Even if we win on Saturday that won’t make all the questions about his selections go away,or at least it shouldn’t.

    Round pegs in round holes always works best.

26. I think before we cast any judgement over this new selection of Farrell and Barritt centre partnership, let’s see what they do. After all these are two players who play together very regularly at club level, and sometimes in these positions. Said club were the highest try scorers in last years Heineken Cup, and I think second highest in the Premiership, so they know what they’re doing with the ball. And also Ford and Farrell played a lot of rugby together in these positions at U20’s level, so as far as familiarity goes this combination has had a lot of time together.
    I suspect this week they will have been switching the two around quite a lot in set plays. They frequently switched places in the U20’s plays, and if memory serves me correctly, Lancaster was the U20’s coach at the time, so it’s a combination he knows well.
    I think until every one is fit again, we will not be on a level playing field with the big 3.

    1. Dazza – I am going to plant my flag in the ground and state that Farrell + Barritt will prove to be the least inspired, least creative centre partnership since Noon and Tindall

       My biggest concern is that they will go ok against Samoa (because its Samoa and they never have enough time together as a team) and then be picked vs Aus where the idiocy of pairing the two of them will be harshly shown up – and we’ll be another defeat down.

       I am happy to be proved wrong but I fear this is almost exactly like the Tuilagi debacle. Almost everyone else could see that was wrong with it – with the exception of the England management.

       1. Whilst I fear you may be right, I hope you’re wrong. I also hope they don’t get blamed for others failings. If Youngs insists on passing to Ford’s head, instead of his chest or hands, this will slow down any ball that Farrell and Barritt are going to get. Then they get blamed for not doing the right things with the ball.
          It’s the same with Wood and Billy V. Wood doesn’t carry enough and is becoming a bit of a Lydiate, just tackling. Whereas Warburton actually carries a lot for Wales, meaning Faletau can roam out wide etc, Robshaw or Wood do not carry effectively or enough, meaning Billy V has been making all the runs, making less impact. So now SL removes Bill V altogether and puts Haskell in. So we won’t know if Billy V would be benefit from an extra ball carrier or not. Instead Morgan gets to start and with the extra ball carrier. So this will make Morgan look really good because he won’t have to do as much as Billy V. Will Haskell go to 8 when Morgan goes off, or will SL put Wood at 8, where he will make no impact whatsoever?! Sorry I’m ranting now, and I’ve gone completely off subject!!
          Anyway I really hope all these combinations work. Come on England!!!!

          1. Very good points on BV Dazza. I hope SL just wants him to have a bit of rest this weekend.

             I’m ok with Robshaw as he’s used more as a link than as a straightforward ball carrier (same as he does for Quins) but you are right about Wood who is in danger of becoming one-dimensional

             We learn nothing from having Wood on the bench. In the absence of BV, a player like Fraser or Ksevic should have been tried out from the bench with Robshaw moving across to the blindside when they come on. Or if SL really doesn’t want to move Robshaw, then stick Ewers on the bench and see what he can do.

             More wasted opportunities.

             1. Totally agree about having Wood on the bench. Frazer could be a really good option – what if Robshaw gets injured? If not now, then when?

27. People are concentrating on the individual selections & not the lack of coaching/playing/mindset skills. I disagree, as already mentioned with, Farrell’s selection full stop as he has little creativity @ INT’AL level, but also out of posi @ 2nd 5!? However England’s real issue is the latter, not the former. Agin Somoa, which England will likely win @ a canter (?), the skills issue won’t seem to matter. However, it did v the other 2 SH sides; e.g. Vainapola’s ‘double tackle’ on the Saffa attacker as he either, didn’t trust Brown to effect the tackle, or he got caught out by not knowing what to do. Either way, SA scored behind the sticks. Also, Attwood’s butchering of a try in the r.h. corner with a 3 on 1! These should be major concerns for England & Lancaster. Again however, with a win over Soamoa, esp if the scoreline is a bumper 1, the headlines will likely opine that England are ‘back on track’, don’tcha know.

    1. You make it sound like it matters what the media headlines say. Who cares? From the NZ Herald to the Telegraph their “experts” generally spout nonsense.

       1. Agreed.

          And that includes S Barnes, W Carling, W Greenwood and L Dallaglio.

          Pundits are always able to pick the best team and tactics, but I don’t see them coaching a team. Additionally ex players are (quite rightly) more one-eyed than Brighty ;-).

28. simon scantlebury
    I think a fella called Will Carling might share yr poinion.

29. Unusually I find myself agreeing with you Don P. Especially regarding those two incidents. Setting aside any selection policies, I have been very disappointed witht he skill level displayed this autumn. Apart from those two points there were a number of times when the forwards were mostly going in the wrong direction when the ball was taken into contact (result = turnover), and for al the complaints about Farrels distribution, he generally has incredibly few options avialable. attacking the line may free some space outside him, but where are all the options and dummy runners to keep the defence guessing?

    All teams are rusty at the beginning of the season, but England seem/are? to be starting from so much lower than any of the other top teams.

30. Geat
    If you ref to me, I occasionally have opinions of my own too… like the ones above on November 21, 2014 at 4:56 pm, after observing the 1st 2 England Intals v the SH. Again tho, yr comments, about media this time, are too general, altho I’m sure that you don’t ‘generally spout nonsense’ yrself.

31. Mike
    Agreed II. I don’t always/usually agree with pundits myself esp, e.g., Stephen Jones, who contradicts himself from from 1 fortnight to the nxt. E.g., ‘NZ are eminently beatable’, to ‘England are enveloped with a cold chill’. Self inflated & retro nonsense. Anyone IS beatable, but whether it happens can be another matter. Also how can England be so ‘enveloped’ within a couple weeks when a fortnight prev they apparently weren’t? Believed I was the only 1 who thought Brighty 1 eyed!? Son of SF definitely! The 2 incidents regarding Vainapola & Attwood are fundamental errors which should not happen @ Int’al level (or club, for that matter), but surely, that’s down to the coaching? If players can’t grasp the basics when out of their comfort zone primary roles, then these should have been addressed BEFOREHAND? Don’t mean to rub salt, but compare with Ireland. Played 2 (of SH big 3), won 2. From a selfish viewpt, it’s good for me (us in the SH) concerning England, but not for them/you. These issues count & can make the diff between winning & losing. That’s how I see it anyhow… critics regardless.

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