Comments on: Best of the Weekend: Heineken Cup Quarter Finals take shape

By: Blub

Blub — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 18:01:38 +0000

James, I do partly agree with you. Partly insofar as I like to see the refs make the team that has won the ball, use it.

Where I disagree with you is that I do think, that often the refs are doing this. I think we see a lot of scrums now where the team with a dominant scrum wins the ball, gets it back to the No8, and then – apparently – sees if it can win a penalty as a bonus. In these instances the ref does make them play it, whereas last year we may have been seeing penalties.

By: Pablito

Pablito — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 17:42:15 +0000

Good idea

By: brighty

brighty — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 17:01:58 +0000

James, it’s an interesting problem. What about borrowing an idea from junior rugby and limiting the distance a scrum can be pushed before ball must be used? Five metres would still enable pushover tries, enable dominant team to use as weapon etc. but would have some compromise to let the game flow?

By: James

James — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:03:39 +0000

I can’t help but marvel at how good healey is with the ball in hand for a prop. He was always good, but even now so he’s sorted his scrummaging out and is a real menacing ball carrier. Joe marler reminds me of a young cian healey in ways. Hot headed, physical, great around the park but just not quite there in the scrum.

By: James

James — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:54:12 +0000

I don’t mean an emphasis on in and out. I’m just calling for it to be actually used as an attacking platform. If the balls there to play at the eights feet than play. Obviously there still needs to be competition until the ball is at the eights feet, but once there I think it should be played. Irrelevant of what then happens at the front of the scrum.

By: Ding Dong Denny

Ding Dong Denny — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:52:24 +0000

Just like to mention – Cian Healy was pretty impressive for someone 4 weeks into his “8 week” recovery period from ankle surgery.

DDD

By: James

James — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:52:01 +0000

I prefer it from the ten. I think an up an under from the nine results in a big jam of forwards to get through. With it usually being executed from the breakdown.

By: Jacob

Jacob — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:43:50 +0000

Would you say that it is better to put an up and under from the 10 to chase? It is more often that not an issue with the chase. If you look at the way Du Preez in particular uses it then you’ll see how useful it can be.

I actually think you are less likely to be charged down, as long as you have guards in properly. The Genia example is an exception and not the trend I’d argue.

Are you saying you’d prefer all kicks to hit touch?

By: Jacob

Jacob — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:29:37 +0000

I sort of see where you are coming from but would this not completely devalue the scrum? If it was treated the way you suggest, just get the ball in and out asap, then it would become devalued and turn into a rugby league type scrum which we don’t want.

By: Pablito

Pablito — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:25:53 +0000

I understand the theory behind it and if it is executed well then it can work nicely. However, you rarely see it executed well – far too often the kick is of poor quality, or the chase is half-hearted. It also lends itself to being charged down – witness Genia in this year’s autumn internationals

And of course, if it isn’t done properly, then the opposition ends up with the ball in a dangerous area of the pitch

I’ve no problem with the 9 using it as a clearing kick to touch where there isn’t the room or time to get the ball to the 10 (so long as they make touch) but aimless punting of the ball into the air makes little sense to me.

By: James

James — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:19:18 +0000

You simply need to YouTube Fourie Du Preez to see an incredible effective box kick.

By: James

James — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:16:18 +0000

With regards to the scrum; why on earth don’t refs tell the scrum half to play the ball if it’s won and at the eights feet? The scrum is used as a competitive way to restart play. So if a team has own, the ball is playable at the eights feet then why not play? It sucks the life out of a game watching one dominant scrum continue the drive until someone pops up or collapses in order to win a kickable penalty. This is a big part of the scrummaging problem in my opinion. If there was less of a reward from twisting and using the so called, “dark-arts,” I think the scrum would become more competitive, we would see less collapses, someone might actually score a try from the scrum as an attacking platform and less time would be eaten away by such an integral feature of the game. Especially evident in the Munster v Gloucester game, we saw Murray leave the ball at the eights feet and look to the ref for a penalty. Most sadly is that this shows a shift in attitude towards wanting to score points through kicks. Both times that Murray waited for the ref to award Munster then pen, he was watching the entire Gloucester eight tied into the scrum marching backwards, the defensive backline was having to retreat, and keatley and co were set up perfectly to attack the Gloucester line. If a team has a scrum capable of causing chaos, that chaos should be used to score five points, not the same monotonous ritual of waiting for the ref to reward the dominant pack.
It’s not a perfect solution that everyone will agree with im sure, however, it would go some way to restoring the tradition and competitiveness of such an important feature of the game. Especially when this feature was designed to give one team an attacking advantage to score tries. I’m sure that in no way, shape or form that original legislators of the games rules would have discussed, “an incredibly difficult process to ref, whereby the dominant team can accumulate points through the repeated penalisation of the defending team.”