Comments on: Burgess gamble will define Lancaster’s hitherto pragmatic regime

By: harlequin

harlequin — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 12:00:36 +0000

Stu absolutely crazy!31/2 years to prepare and we finish up with this.That is piss poor management.In most companies you would be fired for less not awarded a 6 year contract!Ceo’s of huge corporates don’t get that.Absurd!

By: Benjit

Benjit — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:04:54 +0000

Pablito it’s not the choice so much but that lack of foresight. SL knew when he took over that both time and caps were limited, and therfore needed to be more forward looking in his selections, than would otherwise be recommended.

Enter exhibit a: Henry Slade. Junior world cup winner and lauded by many as a future star. A 10 maybe, but had all the skills to fill the problem 12 position; good defence, excellent kicking (from hand and from the tee), decent turn of pace (certainly better than the incumbents Burrell, Barritt and 12t), great hands and a good communicator (something that seems to bring the best out of young Farrell ).

To be fair, SL appears to have noticed this when picking Slade for the end of season Baa Baas match in 2014. Slade performs very well against a very experienced Baa Baas team who were not against roughing him up. Then what. Summer tour? No. AIs? No. 6n? No.

Would this have been a risk to introduce him so early into his career. Yes. But any more risky than picking a player with one cap for your wc squad? Had SL not looked a gift horse in the mouth Slade could have had as many as 12 caps (even as a replacement) and could be a genuine contender to start in the centres.

Sadly unless the incumbents get injured SL too reluctant to take a chance (am thinking Ford in the AIs and Joseph in the 6n) which has cost us.

Look at Schmidt for Ireland. Not afraid to start the AIs with a new inexperienced centre pairing, and now no 2 in the world (one of SL’s stated aims).

By: harlequin

harlequin — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:12:35 +0000

Simple Pablito Luther Burrell because he has 12 caps and played a season with JJ.No he’s not a great player and can be inconsistent but he is a good player in my book and clearly less of an unknown unproven like Sam.For SL to say he is not a gamble flies in the face of facts and logic

By: teecee

teecee — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 18:13:38 +0000

I take your point Pablito. Obviously Bomber can only select qualified players and those he feels are good enough.

I do feel that Daly should have been given a chance in the 6N though. The one thing that stood out alarmingly when I read your list is the paucity of English centres at premiership clubs. We need to be careful that we don’t end up like the French and the England football team.

The attitude of certain players hasn’t helped. I winced when I read Burrell’s comment that he had nothing to prove before the Paris game. WRONG Luther and now you’ve paid the price. Maybe some of his average performance was down to disaffection with the trumpeting of Burgess,even though they share similar backgrounds?

We’ll never know. What we do know is that someone has taken a massive risk here. Let’s hope it pays off.

By: Dazza

Dazza — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:36:23 +0000

Spot on there Pablito. SL and the other coaches can only go by what they’ve seen on the pitch in the two warm up games, and in training. They’ve obviously seen something in Burgess and Slade which has put them above Burrell and 12T (not hard in his case).

SL has come out and said that Burgess and Slade work well as a duo, and we saw that in the first France match. Did Burrell and JJ work as well? In my humble opinion no. They were ok in the Six Nations, but there were still a lot of blunders.

By: Pablito

Pablito — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 09:39:55 +0000

So Harlequin, what would you have done in SL’s place? Who are these centres that he should have been picking to gain them the requisite experience before the world cup?

Should he have kept on playing 12Trees despite him clearly not being world-class? Should he have ignored on-form players such as Joseph and Slade in favour of keeping in out of form players just because they have experience?

Let’s look at his options on the centres front

Bath – Eastmond & Joseph – one picked the other close but you can’t play them together at this level

Saracens – Barritt and Taylor / Wyles – the only eligible centre has been picked

Northampton – Burrell and Pisi – Burrell only just missed out

Leicester – Loamanu and Tait – I like Tait but he’s not better than those picked

Newcastle – Socino and Powell

Sale – Tuitupou and Leota

Harlequins – Sloan & Lowe/Hopper – Sloan one for the future, Lowe regrettably injured too much

Gloucester – 12Trees and Meakes/Purdy – we know all about 12Trees

Exeter – Slade and Hill – Slade picked and Hill perhaps one for the future

Wasps – Leiua and Daly – Daly one for the future

London Irish – Geraghty and Griffen – again I like Geraghty but he’s not better than those chosen

London Welsh – May and Reynolds

So who has SL missed? Who should he have been building up?

Its clear that had injury and silly behaviour not intervened his chosen centres would have been Barritt and Tuilagi and by now they would have had lots of experience.

As for the inexperience, well the SA centres are likely to be Kriel and Allende with a total of 9 caps between them, the Kiwis will probably select Milner-Skudder with his 2 caps and will probably take Sopoaga as well with his 1 cap

They don’t seem to bothered

By: Stu

Stu — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 08:44:58 +0000

That is crazy isn’t it… 2 of 4 centres have only half a game each! When you also consider the lack of game time for BB and JJ there is a complete lack of familiarity and experience in the centres.

By: Harlequin

Harlequin — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:13:33 +0000

I agree with you and Carling.Facts are Sam had a few nondescript games at 12 for Bath moved to 6 and showed he was more comfortable there but SL insisted he was tried at 12 at the Saxons where he was clearly lost.Back to 6 at Bath.So SL and his rl mate Andy F decide he is a 12 plays 60 mins and is now a top 4 centre in the country!Ludicrous is not too strong a word I feel.Also remember 4 former rl centres who failed at Union-Farrell Paul Tomkins and Hape.What makes anyone think no 5 is going to succeed?Finally a half wit knows you pick players with experience for a World Cup.SL has had 31/2 years to sort out the centres so now 2 of 4 centres have precisely 1 cap each.If this all goes wrong it’s the coaches fault not the players.I hope Stu is saying his prayers coz he needs the Almighty!

By: teecee

teecee — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 19:35:40 +0000

For once I agree with Carling and I don’t think his comment is just cross code snobbery.

The “obsession” with Burgess was evident as soon as he set foot in Bath. The RFU have ,I suspect, been leaning on Lancaster ever since and now they have what they wanted.

Bomber has compounded the problem with his muddled selection policy and ,it could be argued, a lack of genuinely world class candidates for both shirts. Only JJ has really grasped the nettle and we have to hope he doesn’t suffer a dip in form during the tournament because we don’t have a like for like replacement in the squad.

We can only wait and hope………………………..

By: Stu

Stu — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 18:11:02 +0000

I know everyone has Barritt nailed on to start but I think I would prefer Burgess at 12 when looking at the likely 15 – there is a serious lack of carrying power in the team that he would help address, in addition I think he is more likely to bring JJ into the game than Barritt. Barritt is great defensively but with Ford and JJ is he the man to link it in attack and hold defenders?

By: Dazza

Dazza — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:33:58 +0000

12T has all the skill but has never shown it on the international stage. Whether it be in attack or defence.

As Adam mentioned above Burrell has been shown up defensively in some club games before, and although has shown some great signs, has not been consistent enough.

Burgess has obviously shown some very good signs in training, and I believe he will be a huge asset to the squad, much more than 12T or Burrell.

By: Leon

Leon — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:23:49 +0000

The way I see it Burgess has been taken as more of a squad player than a starter. The clear preference is for a Barritt/Joseph centre pairing. I would expect to see Burgess/Slade used against the likes of Fiji and Uruguay.
So when you say “he does not yet have enough evidence of whether Burgess can cut it against New Zealand in a World Cup final”, the reality is he probably doesn’t need it, either because that fixture may never happen or if it does then Barritt will start