Stuart Lancaster has named his England squad for this year’s Six Nations, with recalls for Danny Cipriani and Nick Easter.
ENGLAND SIX NATIONS SQUAD
Forwards
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints)
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Backs
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
The Saxons Squad was also announced at the same time, with Sam Burgess included:
SAXONS SQUAD
Forwards
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Christian Day (Northampton Saints)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs)
Matt Garvey (Bath Rugby)
Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby)
Thomas Waldrom (Exeter Chiefs)
Alex Waller (Northampton Saints)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Backs
Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, captain)
Chris Pennell (Worcester Warriors)
Joe Simpson (Wasps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)
Christian Wade (Wasps)
Photo by: Patrick Khachfe / Onside Images
116 replies on “England Squad for Six Nations 2015”
No Wade in the EPS, but room for Goode, despite Watson and Nowell providing FB cover and 12t FFS despite having Eastmond, Barritt, Burrell and even Farrell covering 12.
Why do I have nasty feeling that we’ll see Farrell, Barritt and Burrell at 10, 12 & 13. Goode on the bench. No ambition.
Ashton in the Saxons – ouch. I always viewed the Saxons as a development squad – how must he feel to have gone from England starter to Saxons like that? I wonder if it’s sometimes best to not drop boys down like that, to just use as a dev squad to look at new players?
Feel sorry for Manu, don’t like to see someone suffering from injury but it does push SL now – what is he going to do without the 1 man he deemed essential?
Cipriani in but 4 FHs in this training squad, so still probable he won’t make the final cut?
Assume it is because of the EPS agreement. If there are wing injuries he has to pull players from the Saxons squad. Therefore he must deem Ashton a viable choice if one of the wingers are injured.
On Cipriani – I hope you’re wrong but I think you’re probably right.
Is it normal that i’m more excited by the Saxons backline than the eps backline? Some serious x-factor in there with Daly, Burgess, Slade, Wade, Simpson and Yarde. Good to see Pennell involved as well, just goes to show that ultimately form wins out.
Yeah, that happens a lot. People were saying the same thing in 2013 and we lost 35-0 to Scotland A. There’s more to picking a team than choosing exciting players.
SL finding out what Gats has found out – once you sort out the house it’s then much, much harder to please the fans. I’ve criticised Gats in the past for not picking in form lad X, sticking with Y instead but over time I’ve come to appreciate his approach more. You can’t have revolution in a squad that is by and large punching it’s weight – it’s got to be evolution to get that extra 5% (which is mostly what separates the top end).
If you’re hopeless, a knock out place in a WC the pinnacle of your dreams, then you can just give it a lash and pick all those tyros who are running all over your domestic leagues. If you’re viewing a SF place in the WC as a fail (and I believe England are) then you have some terrible stress tinkering to the right level, to make it w WC Final place while avoiding taking a probable SF place and turn it into a QF one. Caution vs Adventure. I agree with some that SL is a little too far to the Caution side based on the last year or two but I empathise with how hard it is to dance that line.
Granted, sticking with the tried and tested formula does make sense, but in players like Wade you’ve got someone who’s been knocking on the door for some time now, and yarde did play very well in New Zealand. This is in stark contrast to the likes of Goode whom makes the squad despite never really lighting up the international scene. I doubt Lancaster will give Wade his chance in the rwc warmups, so by and large this could be the squad, which is a bit of a shame imo. It are only minor gripes though, since it’s still a very good(e?) and talented squad.
Only 3 wingers in the senior squad? May, Nowell and Watson – would like to have seen Wade included too, probably at the expense of Goode since all 3 wingers can cover there and we know Brown is first choice.
No real surprises. Would have Simpson over Wrigglesworth and I’m hoping (but not expecting) to see Cipriani included over Myler.
The squad doesn’t really tell us a great deal unfortunately because it is so big!
My 23:
Marler, Hartley, Wilson
Parling, Attwood
Haskell, Robshaw, Vunipola
Youngs, Ford
May, Burrell, Joseph, Watson
Brown
Subs: Youngs (no choice wtf – should’ve been Webber), Vunipola, Brookes (assume he’s cover while Cole is injured), Kitchener, Clarke, Care, Farrell, Nowell (woud’ve been Wade if an option)
As I said above, I imagine Barritt on one leg has more of a chance of getting selected than Joseph, Ford may get relegated for Farrell, Wood will probably retain his place, With Kruis and Haskell on the bench with Goode.
Feeling very downbeat about our chances.
I think T Youngs is in his best form for ages – best ball carrier out of our hookers and he’s hit over 90% of his lineouts as well (top of Europe/Premiership). Plus Parling is likely to start so any issues/excuses with the possible unfamiliarity with Lawes from the past won’t be there – as long as he replicates that form with England he’s first choice for me.
Except the argument over Parling doesn’t explain why Youngs’ throwing cost us matches against NZ in 2013 and France in 2014 when Parling was on the pitch (if I recall). I really hope that Youngs has got over his throwing issues, as he is a monster in the loose, at the very least I really hope that if he comes on, they trhow to the front and go safe!
I would totally justify T Youngs with reference to the impact he has had on matches. When he is on the pitch Leicester’s pack is the one of old, bullying teams, smashing rucks and Mauls, and when he isn’t on the pitch (despite LG being a great hooker) they lack something. I think he has the intensity that is required to turn a really really good England pack into a great one, providing, as everyone else has said, he hits his lineouts.
Pretty happy- I do rate Goode unlike everyone else it seems, and he offers the 2nd playmaker option from fullback which allows us to change our game plan if necessary. However like most I would rather have seen Wade in there with Watson and Nowell covering FB.
Bigger shame/surprise for me is 12T over Slade, that missed 2-on-1 vs Sarries gave me nightmares – but great to see Joseph in there. Serious class last week. Apparently all the French commentators were shocked when they were told Joseph probably wouldn’t start in the 6N…
Really hope Cips blows them away in training and can leapfrog Myler. He’s likely to get 80 in the Saxons game to prove his worth as well.
Pack of Marler, T Youngs, Wilson, Parling, Atwood, Haskell, Robshaw and Vunipola. With Cole out the first game could Corbs be TH cover? He was offering that for Saints at the weekend? Or will Brookes be called up for a bit. Bench of Corbs, Hartley, Brookes, Kitchener, Wood.
Backline of Youngs, Ford, Burrell, Joseph, May, Nowell and Brown for me. Still not sold on Watson – 23 shirt I think. Care, Farrell (but hoping for Cips ha) on the bench as well.
Saxons looks good! Good for Pennell
Hurrah for Henry. I too, rate Goode. I would even go as far as to say that he is in better form than Brown at the moment (though Brown did have a decent game against Wasps at the weekend).
Watson though, seems to be more “in form” although I do still have reservations about his high ball reception.
FFS. GOODE. I’m sick of Lancaster picking him. He is not an International standard player. ARGH.
I would love to Lancaster field Ford/Eastmond/Joseph against Wales, but it won’t happen. Sadly, it will likely never happen. The thing is, it is our most destructive centre set up, even if it is lightweight. We could probably expect to outscore opponents so defence could be less of a worry…
I’m going to stop this wishful thinking now. 6N is not going to be filled with champagne moments or much to shout about for us I fear.
Much as I would like to see the exact same 10-13, Wales have a tried and tested way of playing the midfield with Roberts, North and Cuthbert running slice after slice. Whilst I don’t believe that any team should pick a team to defend, part of me would prefer to see Barritt and Farrell standing in their way.
Owen “Ihitpeoplehitandbouncethemabitsoitlookslikeicantacklebutactuallytheyjustspinandcrossthegainlineanyway” Farrell?
A coach is never going to please all of the fans all of the time (I personally don’t agree with Goode and Twelvetrees, and would like to have seen Wade in there), but from this squad you can probably pick the best and most in-form available 23 in England, so that’s good enough for me.
I’m a little cynical about the selection of Cips as a 4th fly-half. Feels like this selection is intended to persuade Cipriani to stay in England. Either to ensure he is available for future selection or more likely as a favour to Sale to help them keep him….
Three wingers, four fly halves, and 12T!!!! WTF. I’m guessing Barritt is in because Manu is out, but why the f**k is 12T in there? Slade or Daly should have got that spot. No Wade either?!
It’s obvious from looking at the two squads that at least one scrum half and one fly half are gong to drop back into the Saxons squad. Based on this, and assuming that Wigglesworth and Cipriani (should be Myler, but probably won’t be) will be dropping back down, I would rather watch the Saxons play. A possible back line of Simpson, Cirpiani, Yarde, Burgess, Daly, Wade and Pennell is a lot more mouthwatering than what’s on offer in the Senior squad!
Really happy to see Itoje named in the Saxons. He is definitely one to watch.
What happened to the Fijian wing whose name escapes me at the mo? Plays for Bath? Is he injured?
He is injured Brighty – pulled up whilst scoring a try the weekend before last. Shame.
Rokoduguni, not sure he has had a couple of light injury issues recently and as a result has been behind Agulla in the pecking order at Bath, also pulled up badly in the process of scoring against Wasps a week and a half ago, not sure on the status of that injury.
Good spot Brighty. Rokoduguni has been off form and did pull up injured scoring a try recently.
Thanks all for the clarification. As a Welshman I am glad he isn’t playing (though do feel sorry for anyone who misses out due to injury), has a bit of an X factor.
4 Fly Halves? I am pleased to see Cipriani in there, and if he doesn’t make the final cut, then so be it.
I have faith that the coaching team will give them all a fair crack at nailing their places down, and would hope that whichever player drops out, it is because he hasn’t “passed muster”.
Likewise for Twelvetrees. Let him prove to the coaches that he is truly out of form.
I wouldn’t defend his present form for Gloucester, but I do think that he suffers a little in comparison to some of the others, as he doesn’t have the strength of Burrell/Tuilagi, the feet of Eastmond, of the pace of Joseph. BUT – when he is form – he is a good organiser, to paraphrase what someone said in regards to the Saxons backs, you can’t just chuck together your 7 most exciting backs and hope to have a functioning backline.
Not surprised that everyone has a moan at the squad but I do think it is crazy to do so.
The likes of Slade will not be getting thrown in now unless their form is out of this world. It’s not, it’s very good.
Consistency is so key to selection, and picking the latest hot shot each month is madness.
SL can be overly cautious at times (I’m thinking Barritt), but for the most part his selections have been pretty spot on.
Yes I’d make some changes as I stated above by in reality the 23 that will go out will probably be very close to what I’d pick.
Personally I’m thinking:
Marler, Hartley, Wilson, Attwood, Parling, Haskell, Robshaw, Vunipola, Youngs, Ford, May, Burrell, Joseph, Nowell, Brown
Youngs, Vunipola, Brookes, Kruis, Wood, Care, Farrell, Watson
I think SL will probably pick something very close to that. Joseph maybe not, but I’m hoping he will. SL has tried him before a few times so it isn’t like he doesn’t like the player – he simply dropped him when his form went massively off the boil, which was fair enough. Early season he was very good, but he has shown he can do it consistently now and I actually think SL might pick him.
On the 12T’s selection – I hope he doesn’t start but he was good during the AIs so I can’t argue with his inclusion in the wider squad.
Hate to be critical Jacob, but I don’t remember 12T doing anything good in the AI’s, and although some people would say the same about Barritt, I do remember Barritt making several massive tackles, creating knock-ons and turnovers.
Thought 12Ts had a really good impact when he came on in the Samoa game. He was also good against Australia without doing anything outstanding. I did choose the word “good” carefully as I’m aware he did nothing special. Either way – SL is not the type of coach that has someone go from starter to out of the 34 man squad two months later.
All 12T did in the Aus game was to provide a stark contrast to the excellent Toomua
If I remember rightly he missed about half his tackles from that game as well. No wonder poor ol’ Brad looked so knackered at the end of the game
To be fair to him, Toomua was absolutely world class in that game – I stress again my use of the word good and not great.
No idea on that tackle stat if I’m honest so can’t really comment. He certainly provided impact in the Samoa game and off the top of my head didn’t do anything so bad that he’d go from starting at 12 to not being in the 34 man squad.
To be fair Pablito, whilst I thought 12t was no more than ok, I did feel for him as he was targeted by the Aussies and clattered a lot. It was almost as if they felt that Barritt was not an attacking threat and could largely ignore him and concentrate on Billy. So covering for Billy’s defence was the least BB could do in return!
Well, they certainly weren’t wrong about that Benjit!
Yes, Toomua was world class but that doesn’t excuse 12Ts lack of impact. Saying he was OK and therefore shouldn’t be dropped makes no sense to me.
He’s had 16 caps (!) to state his case and has failed to do so in any one of them. That’s more than enough chances and now he’s just taking up a spot that could go to someone who might make a difference.
PS – seeing that missed two on one just nailed it in my mind for 12Ts. Anyone who can’t finish that off at club level has no business being anywhere near the national team…
Not really sure anyone was suggesting 12T should start for England anytime soon so I don’t think anyone is excusing his lack of impact…
16 caps isn’t a lot though, and I don’t think he is a lost cause. He has been very good in a few of his caps (I’m thinking vs Scotland in 2013). How many starts is that? Genuinely have no idea by the way.
Wouldn’t even want to justify that 2 on 1 – but Goode has done that in an England shirt twice and still gets in…
Was sticking up for Jacob (a fellow Wasp I believe) not the 12t selection. Would’ve had an extra winger (Wade natch). But I do think anyone playing alongside Barritt does face this difficulty when England are in possession, even Manu in the latter 2013 6n.
I still cannot believe 12t ignored May in the Sarries match. Then you look at the pass Eastmond gave Banahan in the lead up to the Joseph try and think wtf SL – bigger is not necessarily better.
A fellow Waps indeed! Would definitely have liked to have seen Wade in there, probably over Goode since all other wingers cover 15.
Agree again on Barritt – does a job. But to judge someones lack of impact offensively when playing next to him seems unfair.
Rant over my 23 for Senior squad would be:
1. Vunipola, 2. Hartley, 3. Wilson, 4. Parling, 5. Attwood, 6. Haskell, 7. Robshaw, 8. Vunipola, 9. Wigglesworth, 10. Ford, 11. May, 12. Eastmond, 13. Joseph, 14. Nowell, 15. Watson
16. Youngs, 17. Marler, 18. Cole (shame for Brookes), 19. Kruis, 20. Easter, 21. Care, 22. Farrell, Brown
Saxons 23:
1. Mullan, 2. Webber, 3. Brookes, 4. Day, 5. Itoje, 6. Garvey, 7 Kvesic, 8. Ewers, 9. Simpson, 10. Slade? (Are there any out and out 10’s in the Saxons squad?) 11. Yarde, 12. Burgess, 13. Daly, 14. Wade, 15. Pennell
16. Cowan-Dickie, 17. Waller, 18. Thomas, 19. Harrison, 20. Waldrom, 21. Dickson, 22. Devoto, 23. Ashton
Hmm. If Farrell/ Barritt/ Burrell is a bit too safe, is Ford/ Eastmond/ Joseph a bit too risky? Or is my choice of Ford/ Burrell/ Joseph too uncertain?
I think that familiarity makes a lot of difference. So a midfield combination of a 10, 12 & 13 who have been outstanding at the highest club level in the last couple of months should be given a chance. Stick Burrell in there and you’ve got to get him playing with either Eastmond or Joseph at the same or higher level than they play at club level. No matter how much training they do in two weeks they are never going to get the same level of communication. Burrell is likely to be the only Saint in that back line, so although he is one of the best centres we have, he’s not proven himself at that level with any of the other players in the squad. But Ford, Eastmond and Joseph have been doing it week in week out for Bath.
Btw what is it about Itoje that have so many people purring. Physically nothing to mark him out, but haven’t had a chance to see him play much? Is he comparable to other good players past or present?
Saw a few of the under 20 world cup games where he was captain, obviously difficult to judge from those, but he did seem to be a class above some of his team mates in that, not seen enough of Sarries games this season to comment further though.
Also as a resident of earth in real life and formerly of the West country and therefore a Bath fan, I would agree that Ford/Eastmond/Joseph is probably too risky for international, great fun at club level but watching them does get a bit fraught at times when they let their exuberance get ahead of them, it seems almost a mindset at times that we focus too much on winning games by scoring more points than the opposition rather than worrying too much about stopping them scoring which has the potential to go quite badly wrong… the last option I would like to see, or to be honest Ford/Eastmond/Burrell!
I watched all the U20 World Cup games last year, and he was outstanding both as a player and a leader. This season he has captained the Sarries A team to the A-League title, and has made a few appearances off the bench for the senior team. For a lock, you’re right that physically there is not much to mark him out, but he is deceptively strong, and quick. Also versatile like Lawes, Launchbury and Kruis in that he can play at 6 as well. Lancaster is right to get him in the set-up now. As for comparisons, I can’t think of anyone similar off the top of my head.
I agree with Dazza. When you look at him on paper he does not stand out, but his playing does. Both in the speed and physicality he brings, and in how he plays. Just seems to get in the right place.
I would be very surprised if he is involved in the WC, but he is definitly one for the future.
Think the Saxons squad should be more of a development squad and therefore include players like Auterac and Sam Hill although i understand the EPS selection rules.
I agree with a comment above that Cips may just be an appeasing selection – 4 fly halves seems a bit of a waste when you could bring in someone like Wade instead.
Goode is a very good club player but has never really pushed hard for a starting spot so would prefer to see him replaced with someone who can challenge. 12T’s for me should have missed out altogether – has never really taken his chance and should give way to someone who could impact the squad.
Lastly, although i think Easter deserves a chance i honestly believe it is a mistake not to bring Armitage in – not selecting him weakens our chance of winning the RWC and that is the only argument that counts
Stu you have hit the bullseye dead centre.SL’s job is to select the team with the best chance of winning RWC.Everybody knows Stefan is the best 7 by a mile.End of.He is hanging his hat on Burgess making it as the 12 for RWC.As Dean Ryan says he is currently a million miles away.I don’t believe SL has the experience or ability to produce a capable of winning the cup.His coaching team(except Rowntree)is too lightweight
It’s not “Lancaster’s Law”, it’s RFU policy.
Interesting seems to be a consensus of picking Haskell at 6 and Wood in the 20 shirt, if at all…
I like Nick Easter. He’s a top bloke and a great player for Quins.
However he is 37. He’s not going to be in and around the squad for the next few years. Steffon Armitage could be.
No real surprises, expecting a very conservative selection for the trip to Cardiff. I hope that regardless of the result, in form partnerships get tried out for the rest of the tournament.
One reservation I have about the bath 10/12/13 combo is that usually both wingers are big ball carriers (banahan, agulla, Roko) and that the bath pack has a number of good ball carriers, certainly better than wood/robshaw/Haskell. That said I would love to see it tried at international level!
That is a very valid point, and one reason why I would have Haskell instead of Wood. I might even be tempted to play Billy at 6 and have Easter at 8. If it gives us better options to carry the ball and get the ball to the Bath backs, then it works for me. Wood and Robshaw are not effective ball carriers, so do we really need both of them?
No Lawes and no Launchbury due to injuries!!
Come back Moritz Botha your country needs you.
Oh hold on show silly of me of course you are back in your country after Saracens agreed to part by mutual consent coz your are playing for Natal Sharks back down South!
Meanwhile the saviours of England’s wing play have disappeared
The Yardee from the West Indies (dropped) and
Mr Dunkey (Don’t worry lad you won’t be ever again be sent on active service)
Both are out of the squad almost as soon as they were in it.
Quick pick another foreigner to done the white shirt asap! Wouldn’ t be the 1st time and won’t be the last either.
Meanwhile its spirit of 2011 as Mr Easter Egg returns from exile for being a naughty boy.
Back to the Future’ it is then!
Come on SL why not pick Dean Richards as a potential blood replacement at No8?
Rokoduguni is injured and Yarde is out of form.
So exactly when are you opening the Welsh branch of UKIP?
If only there was a “like” button on this thing, perfect response Benjit!
Careful Liono, he’ll soon get vexed about Thundercats coming over here and taking over our blogs. Mum-ra may have been an evil demi-god, but at least he was a native of Earth!
Cross posting as these origin jibes seem to be popping up all over the place – Warburton’s dad summarised the laughable debate about Anscombe and country of origin well enough for me – “Ball, Amos, Charteris, Cuthbert, J.Davies, Faletau, Jarvis, King, Lydiate, North, none born in Wales, Anscombes welcome!”
If he’s good enough he’s in based on the current rules. I understand that’s a debatable point but it’s much more befitting of a rugby blog to debate his skills and whether he’s good enough for international rugby.
I think there’s also a valid debate on the rules – I’d prefer 5 year residency and once you’ve played adult representative (18 or over) for your country then you’ve made your choice and can’t move. BUT … that is not the current rule so would not abuse anyone who was trying to make their way in the game.
Like you, I have no problem with any country picking any player provided it’s within the rules. It’s the stuff about him being Gatland’s project player a year in the making that sits uncomfortably with me. You can’t play for Wales if you’re not in Wales (Williams), but it’s fine for Anscombe to take the place of the likes of Patchell. I think Anscombe was always going to be in the Wales squad, regardless of how he played for Blues – if indeed he got any game time at all.
Yes, I fear you are right and considered he had a good chance as soon as he signed. Drafted in with the express intent of playing if he simply looked half decent (like Burgess – that’s not a nationality issue but you know what I mean).
I’d still pick him ahead of Williams – he’s on a DC so is open for all training sessions, extra matches, etc. We already know from last year that Williams can’t get the same release. Also, for me, he is more exciting than Williams. It’s a fine edge but that’s my opinion of the two as players.
Should Williams be in ahead of Priestland? I’d worry about us having 2 uncapped FHs in the squad. We can probably decently blood 1 more player before the WC. I fully expect Williams to be in the squad regularly after the WC.
The problem is now that whether he is good enough or not looks like it doesn’t matter because of the way he was brought over with the apparent express wishes of Gats to fill a Welsh FH slot.
‘The Yardee’ from the West Indies?
Aside from the slightly dubious connotations of assosciating a black man with being a Yardee, I’d be awful careful citing this guy as a foreigner. Moved to the UK as a 9 year old. Went through all the age groups as an England player. What more could he do to be a British citizen?
AAAGH! Much as I don’t want to just parrot most of what has already been said it is very hard not to do so.
Much sympathy for Brookes. Has Cole had enough game time? Wilson must start in Cardiff but I would have had KB on the bench.
Cipriani is a typically Lancasteresque tokenism. He will be discarded come “23” time.Bloody criminal.
Four wingers would have made more sense. I would like to have seen Banahan in there for his size and scoring ability along with Wade who really must be wondering what you have to do to be selected.
12T? here we are again.So much talent,so little conviction. I also mourn the absence of Slade. So what if the Wcup is so close. Being around the seniors can only accelerate his development surely?
All in al this is a curates egg of a squad. I imagine the centres for Cardiff will be Barritt and 12T. Joseph should be a shoe-in but mr play it safe will stick rather than twist.
Other than that it’s hard to know what to say so i’ll shut up!
Teecee (and others)…
How is Cipriani tokenism, or appeasement?
3 Fly Halves would be usual in a squad such as this. Ford and Farrell – whatever your views of them – are the first two, and the third is a difficult choice.
One is a steady 10 playing for the countries top side, with the team playing a great brand of running rugby, with a good kicking record.
The other is the more naturally gifted (in terms of the running game), who is also putting in good displays in a weaker team (yes, I know Sale beat Northampton recently).
One is not a brilliant player but you know what you’ll get, the other is a brilliant player, but never quite sure what you’ll get.
Why not take ’em both into camp and see how it works?
If Cipriani really is fourth choice, why would he worry about him going to France? Burns and Slade (even Hodgson or Botica) would be perfectly adequate fourth choices in his absence.
If you carefully read my comment it’s self explanatory. I said he will be discarded come final selection time. Neither will he make the cut for the WCup. THAT is known as a token gesture in my book. Just you wait and see. Lancaster has an inherent distrust of players who exhibit the ability to go “off message” to use a fatuous Blairism. It’s in his nature. Still at least it provoked a debate of sorts.
That doesn’t explain Tokenism Teecee. Quite the opposite in fact.
IF he is discarded (either from the match day 23, or the reduced squad), it doesn’t equal tokenism. In the same way if he is retained, it will not suggest that it is not tokenism.
Its a ridiculous assertion, but more to the point, I don’t follow the logic of why anyone would believe Lancaster feels the need to apply tokenism.
life’s too short mate! I can’t help but think you are being deliberately pedantic here .Next…….
Not deliberately. I just don’t understand the logic/reasoning.
Saw an interesting comparison of the 4 FH stats on Skysports earlier, Farrell was by far the lowest performer in all but kicking percentage including tackles made (Cips top!!)…If England want to play a more expansive game then maybe Farrell should be the one to drop out??
Faz Jr was on Rugby Tonight on Monday. Good lord he was dull and didn’t come accross as the brightest of individuals. Give him a game plan he will execute it well, most of the time. But if that gameplan doesn’t work and a bit thinking is required, I’m not sure he’s your man.
I agree with you one hundred percent Benjit. He’s plastic,malleable,in short a superannuated schoolboy. Get the connection? Why Lancaster favours him so much? In a sense they need each other.
Lancaster gets to feel safe with a mindset he can relate to and Farrell gets the impression he is a much more important and better player than he really is.
Nail on head Stu. It’s not right that the nailed on player out of Farrel/Ford/Myler/Cips is Farrel. Out of all of those 4 he is the 1st one I’d drop.
Brighty, out of interest why we he be the first one that you would drop?
He seems to suffer from not being George Ford. I don’t know how many caps he has, but the recent AI’s apart I think he has done a very good job for England.
He is not exactly Barry John or Mark Ella, but he has rarely let England down.
My own view is that I would love Ford backed up by Cipriani, but I find it very difficult to justify leaving him out of the 23.
His poor autumn came off the back of the Lions tour, in which he played really well (surprisingly so).
Because I think the other there cover all the points you need on the spectrum – prosaic, flair, etc and in each of the points one of the other three offers more than him. Myler is, to my mind, more of a steady pair of hands. Ford offers more and Cipriani can be exciting.
To be fair that stats were drawing in numbers despite the fact that Farrell had played half the number of games to every other 10. I.e. his number of tackles and number of carries would be lower…
I’m in the minority that rate Farrell – I still think it paired with the right people he can be extremely effective.
The sad thing is everyone is expecting a conservative selection, as per the AIs. Yet when SL did gamble in last year’s 6N it actually paid off. I’d argue the damage done in the first 20 mins with the newbies had less of an impact than the damage done in the last 10 minutes by SL bringing on he safe bankers (Barritt/ Goode and T Youngs).
Come on Stu – overule Farrell and take the game to Wales!
Thats it decided then, i’ll get on to SL first thing in the morning about a certain Farrell Jnr 🙂
on a serious note it sometimes makes me wonder what Englands attacking gameplan is when they select such opposites as Ford and Farrell. Surely a combination of Ford and Cips or Farrell and Myler would make more sense – Plan A and B doesn’t seem to affect personnel elsewhere to this extent i.e half back selections so seems a bit strange
Cast your mind back to 2013 where we won in Dublin for the first time in 10 years. Can you honestly say on that cold and wet day you’d rather have had Cipriani or Ford than Farrell?
That is exactly why picking Ford and Farrell make sense. We have a plan A and a plan B – isn’t that the whole idea of any sporting game plan? To have the ability to adapt?
Possibly not then but Ford and Cipriani have both matured and improved massively since and I’m not sure Farrell has to the same degree. Stats are subjective but this seasons so far suggest we wouldnt be worse off with Ford than Farrell in that situation. Cips loses out to Farrell goalkicking wise only so in that situation fair enough.
I knew Freddie Burns would not make his way to the saxons. Cipirani is still no doubt the 4th choice. Lancaster only did that to stop him going to France.
Tom croft in saxons as well as Webber & Kvesic sad for them. Would rather have Webber instead of Youngs who has a poor history of lineouts at international. Would rather had Brookes in the eps. Would think he is more of a impact subs then Wilsons if Cole was starting.
Like others I groan when I see Goode.He may be a decent club player and impress in training but he is not an international player.He lacks the pace and the power.Lancaster must yearn to be near him.
Gutted to hear about Foden’s injury, but at least I haven’t destroyed a keyboard in dismay over Goode being selected ahead of him again.
12Ts is very lucky, possibly saved by his partnership with Burrell developing quite well over the course of the last 6N.
Clearly Wade still isn’t hitting enough rucks and being able to create and score tries that no other English qualified player can counts for nothing. The ability of Nowell to “beat the first man” clearly more important than the ability to “put the ball down over the line” ….. very disappointing, but not surprising.
Still it’s a good enough squad to do better than our last visit (I hope) to the MS.
The ability of Nowell to “beat the first man” clearly more important than the ability to “put the ball down over the line”
Very good, Matt!
I think also the ability to be in the right position to defend your wing, and actually stop attackers when running in that direction plays a part to Wade’s non selection. He still can’t seem to grasp positional defending. When he is in the right place, he is actually not a bad tackler considering his size.
I suspect the reason SL won’t pick Steffan is that he is not prepared to drop Wood or Robshaw.
Obviously his choice of 10 will determine how he wants us to play in Cardiff.I reckon he will be his conservative self(ie damage limitation) and pick Farrell,Barritt,and Burrell
Sadly I think you might be right. With Goode to come off the bench no doubt
I think the squad is is predictable considering the injuries. If you start May, Watson and Brown, if injuries occur I cannot see a threatening impact from the bench backs. If you you’ve got no Manu the next best thing is out and out pacei.e Wade and Yarde-victims of pragmatism
We need someone to score tries at the highest level, therefore Ashton with his track record in European games must surely be a shoe in. Cant see what Nowel, Watson or Wade have actually achieved to justify their selection ahead of him
Ashhton and Wade suffer from similar but oposite problems. one can get in the correct position defensively, but can’t tackle. The other can tackle, but is never in the right place.
Just not feeling it for Ashton at the moment but I do rate him. Agree Nowell offers nothing in terms of impact. This 6n I is a watershed moment for SL. If England don’t win every game with this quite established squad, I predict their exit from the WC group stage, is on the cards. Let’s remember England were the best side in the World for 12 months leading up to the 2003 WC, that’s the sort of pedigree you need to win world cups-and a bit of luck.
It’s nowhere near that cut-and-dried. Playing Wales in Cardiff is a massively different prospect to playing them in the comfort of Twickenham, and England beat Australia at home the last time of asking (in fact, 3 times in the last 4). Losing to Wales and Ireland in Cardiff and Dublin would by no means be the end of the world.
Bang on Sharpy. I can’t believe the number of people who seem to have forgotten this. Woodwards
England were taking on and beating all comers at this stage in 2003. Geat, imagine this England losing to Wales ,Ireland France etc this 6N. Would you REALLY feel confident that they could miraculously become favourites for the WCup after that? Come on! let’s have some cold eyed honesty here instead of Red Rose tinted optimism.
I genuinely don’t think the 6N will have much bearing. In 2007 we were trounced by Ireland and lost to Wales, yet made the final – and that wasn’t even at home. That was pretty miraculous.
We can thrash everyone in the 6 nations and NZ will still be far and away the favourites for the WC, and rightly so.
Madness to compare this side to a great side like the England ’03 side. SL can’t be blamed that this squad doesn’t have the players with the same experience and quality that side did.
I also don’t think that the 2003 crop is a valid comparison. Don’t forget that, at that stage, SCW had been nurturing that group of players for 6 years. His first summer tour was humiliating, including a 76-0 loss to Australia, and he said he was going to win the 1999 world cup but nearly lost his job when we went out in the quarter-finals.
We need to beat the Home Nations, whether it’s home or away to carry that momentum into the World Cup. The 6n is, although full of history,patriotism, friendly rivalry and excitement, a second tier competition and if we have higher aspirations we need to nail it.
Saxons just seem a bit more interesting to me. eps you can almost guess we are going to see barrit & burrell or worst with farrell. If i ever see Barrit with Farrell as centre combo again, that would be the most lackluster attacking pair that really does not frighten the other team.
Saxon why is ashton there, better hope Lancaster is not hoping he plays himself into form. Never ever want to see ashton again in eps. His horrible defence is just too much. Watching him trying to tackle Aaron smith sums it up from the summer tour & do not ignore his poor try scoring history under Lancaster reign or how he failed to repaid Lancaster faith.
Sometimes i think Mike Brown having to face a 2 vs 1 is just Ashton fault for not being able to tackle. can’t remember a 2 vs 1 from last year 6 nation, but there were some from this autumn. But was not common.
Rugby, Bloody hell! (trad arr Sir Alex Ferguson)
I’ve no doubt barritt will start against wales. This will be a true test of his defense & his attacking. Away games are much harder to win then home games & I remember Barritt defense did nothing against france or wales 2 year ago during that beating & i still slightly remember how saracens against toulon in the finals, where barritt attacking liability was revealed against gitaeu or his defense did not save the day.
Unfortunately, England’s midfield defence is paramount against Wales because this is where Wales attack.
I say unfortunately because I would rather see a backline that has more flair and imagination going forward, than the likes of Farrell and Barritt may provide.
One interesting area though is the balance, as i’m not convinced that for all his clear strength, defence is Burrell’s forte, which may provide some scope for Joseph at 13, or indeed Barritt at 13 and Eastmond inside (or even Ford/Farrell at 10/12).
Or even Twelvetrees and Barritt in the centre (now that suddenly doesn’t sound such a good idea).
What I’d like to see:
1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Wilson
4. Attwood
5. Parling
6. Haskell
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola
9. Wigglesworth
10. Ford
11. May
12. Burrell
13. Joseph
14. Wade
15. Brown
Webber, Corbisiero, Brookes, Kitchener, Wood, Care, Watson, Farrell
I’d actually like to have Slade instead of Farrell on the bench, but think Wales at home may be a bit too much for a first cap
What we’re likely to get:
1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Wilson
4. Attwood
5. Parling
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Barritt
13. Burrell
14. Watson
15. Brown
Youngs, Corbisiero, Brookes, Kruis, Easter, Care, Farrell, Yarde
There is a chance that SL will play Joseph at 13 with Barritt at 12.
In which case, I predict that Joseph will get no decent ball all game, will be replaced at half time by Farrell going to 12 and Barritt moving to 13, then he’ll be dropped after the game and never picked again under SL’s tenure
Sadly I think you may be right in your prediction. What gets me about SL, is that he seems to think that the same set of 15 players should play, no matter what the circumstances. I might feel a little less depressed about a Barritt dominated midfield if I was sure that SL’s plan was to pay a tight game away from home and then tweak the selection to be more expansive at home. Yet we all know that if England win with Farrell and Barritt in Cardiff SL would use that as justification for their continued selection.
Pablito, not bad – though it wouldn’t surprise me (nor disappoint me) if we saw Wigglesworth on the bench. I like your backline.
Yarde is not in the senior squad is he? Is it not more likely to see Nowell out there with Watson on the bench?
Likewise Cole for Brookes (unless Cole breaks again before then)
I like Wigglesworth and think he’s under-rated. Good kicking game, very organised, snappy pass
You are right about Yarde and Brookes. So switch them on my expected bench for Nowell and Cole
Can’t believe Brookes isn’t in the senior squad. Idiocy considering Cole has played just a couple of games since coming back. We know Brookes can have an impact and he’s playing very well at the moment.
Nowell for Yarde I am quite happy about mind. Although, a horrible thought has skimmed its way across my mind…rather than Nowell or Yarde on the bench, it’ll be Goode…Noooooooooo
Of the three scrum halves in the senior squad, Wiggy is the most in form player. Youngs has shown no particularly good form, and neither has Care of late. He’s also the best kicker of the three.
I think the main issue we have is that we are all picking our centre partnerships on here based on Premiership form, where they all play in teams where the pack have at least three major ball carriers. Unfortunately England keep on picking Wood and Robshaw together, and neither of them carry the ball enough to suit the centre partnerships we would like to see. Hopefully we will see Attwood carrying lots of ball (Launchbury has been missed in this regard), and it will make a difference. But the top Premiership teams all have plenty of ball carriers to get them over the gain line and create space. England have Vunipola, and when he’s playing, they rely on him for too much. Sarries have been using him as a dummy runner to pretty good effect. If England could use him in a similar way, it could open up lots of space for the likes of Joseph, May and Watson to exploit.
Very good point there. Which is why Haskell needs to be picked instead of Wood and told to get his damn hands on the ball. He’s a good carrier when he gets going
Parling is never shy of a carry although you couldn’t describe him as destructive, but If he, Haskell, BV, Attwood and at least one of the props muck in, then it will give the centres more room to work with
Another reason its good having Brookes on the bench, he seems to be a very energetic carrier. In fact, although I’m not a great fan of Youngs, a replacement front row of Mako Vunipola, Tom Youngs and Kieran Brookes could certainly do some damage in the loose!
In the telegraph Austin Healey picked a back row of Clark, Haskell and Vunipola…wonder if he was thinking the same thing
More comments than I’ve had hot dinners here, but there was not 1 on the Irish squad blog until mine i.e. Mmmmm. Insularity or what? And lots of talk regrds individual players again, but little on tactics they’ll need, as a TEAM, to employ to beat Wales & Ireland away. Perhaps they don’t matter though?
However, before I’m accused again of regurgitating (or is it this site’s regurgitating the same old, new teams/squads?), I’d mostly go with Benjit’s team as the 1 Lancaster’s most likely to pick; i.e. Marler, Hartley, Wilson, Parling, Attwood, Wood (for Haskell), Robshaw, Vunipola, Youngs, Ford, May, Burrell, Barritt (for Joseph), Watson and Brown. It’s entirely not the team I’d choose, but I perceive that Lancaster has gone conservative & will also look to Ford to follow similar orders as v Oz. I don’t see SL changing his starting line up, although he’s likely to give Easter a run if Billy runs into a Gatland anticipated wall. Also I don’t think Lancs really likes or believes in Haskell either. May get a run if the going gets tough. Sooner rather than latter? And I think he’ll go for Barritt as his defensive mindset needs to ‘stop them from losing’. Personally I’d have Armitage @ open & Robshaw @ blind. I’d give Youngs a start @ 1/2, but only because he’s the incumbent & has to be given something of a run. Otherwise Care, or Wiggles, should come on pretty early if Youngs doesn’t make an impression. I’d be brave & give Joe Simpson a go myself. Reckon he’d be so pleased he’d play like 2 men given the oppo. Not going to happen though. I’d also have Eastmond in with Burrell (or Joseph, if the centres fails to penetrate fairly early) as they will likely need to create something, esp away to Wales as they’ll be desperate to win – as will England of course. Make or break 1st up for both teams I think. The only other regurge is not going to happen in a million either. I’d have Cipriani IN. Have to start Ford for same reason as for Youngs, but if he doesn’t penetrate early again, he ought to go for DC. The team that gets the 1st try (not penalty), within the 1st 10 mins will give themselves an actual as well as a big psychological boost IMO.
What!? brighty talking Gatland up after earlier prev slagging off all that is NZ & their only being able to win a WC @ home (well, so far boyo, but nevertheless, still 2 more than yr lot eh?) etc. Is this the irony that Jones of the ST talks of? And it must stick in yr craw that you now have Hammett AND Anscombe @ Carediff to try & pull yer fat out of the fire.
Geat
‘There’s more to picking a team than choosing exciting players’.Yup. And oops, you’ve upset Benjit AND Liono! Better ditch the sheila, she must be distracting you.
Jay
Sadly, agree regds the centres.
Liono
Regds Rokoduguni, Lancaster said ‘That the dynamics of the AI’s mean that Roko will not feature in our future plans, but the dynamics of the 6N means he that will feature in our plans’, or summat as near as dammit. Make of that what you will.
simon scantlebury You said it. Are you really a Kiwi, or do you just have a bit more WISDOM than some here?
Prophet Enoch And stop pulling yer punches Enoch!
Changing the subject would England be in a better ot worse place if they had chosen Nick Mallett/Wayne Smith instead of SL?
I think the difference would have been Wayne smith, he is streets ahead in terms of coaching attack which is the area I feel we have progressed the least. I think Mallett would have given him more influence in terms of selection than Catt has in the current setup?
Stu
Actually we should compare Smith with Farrell Snr!And of course there’s no comparison!Oh dear we got that wrong then
I think the whole coaching team bar rowntree are quite lightweight in terms of experience and wonder if maybe SL should have brought in somebody else to bounce off
How about Mallett & Smith in tandem? If they could have worked together? Besides NM was born here, so could/should have been the obvious choice eons ago? Either would have changed the ltd mind set of how the games needs to be played, which, IMO, is what England needs. Oodles of players.
Looking forward to seeing Burrell back.Shame about Morgan out as great impact player.Miss watching Tuilagi breaking tackles.Hope Burgess can break into squad and be a threat to the opposition.Tight games but be good to hear comments after the MS encounter.