The worst kept secret of Eddie Jones’s short stint as England coach so far has been confirmed this afternoon: Dylan Hartley has been named as the new England captain. He will take the armband for the first time for England’s opening Six Nations match against Scotland at Murrayfield.
Hartley, of course, is no stranger to the leadership role, having led Northampton Saints for five years from 2009. He stepped down in 2014 after a hugely successful tenure as captain that was, however, mainly remembered for his chequered disciplinary record; a record that has seen him cumulatively miss over a year of rugby for various bans.
In many ways, this is Jones stamping his authority over the England team at the earliest possible opportunity. Hartley is not dissimilar in character to England’s new coach: fiercely competitive, spiky at times but also able to have a laugh with the media and fans.
“Dylan is an honest, hardworking bloke and I admire his aggressive and uncompromising approach to playing rugby,” Jones was quoted as saying in the official press release.
Just as Jones is vastly different in personality to previous coach Stuart Lancaster, Hartley is a world apart from Lancaster’s on-field lieutenant Chris Robshaw. Robshaw was a leader in his actions; Hartley, while not someone who always sets the best example, is certainly a man with the outspoken passion that is sometimes needed on the field to turn a performance around.
Put it this way: can you really imagine Robshaw’s spittle-flecked face as he launches into a half-time speech with England losing and in need of inspiration? Hartley fits that image in an instant.
This is not to say that Robshaw is a bad captain, of course, merely that a more firebrand character like Hartley is perhaps what this England team, for so long obsessed with a nice, clean culture, needs.
To be honest though, the options were few and far between. There is a feeling of the slate being cleaned and you can name the players that are guaranteed to be starting at Murrayfield on one hand. Of those players, none are really leaders.
Joe Launchbury was a lot of people’s choice, and is probably one of those few players that is guaranteed his shirt. But he is not someone that comes across as a leader on the pitch, but more as a player that likes to quietly get on with his job. While he would no doubt have accepted the role, if Jones was looking for that sort of leader he would have been better off leaving the armband in Robshaw’s kitbag.
The key now for Jones will be to identify the group of players that becomes this team’s core, and to ensure they work with Hartley as soon as possible in developing a leadership group.
“I’m really excited about the challenge ahead but in reality leading this squad of players will not fall just to me,” Hartley astutely admitted. “It is essential for the success of this team that we quickly develop and establish a strong leadership group.”
There will no doubt be rocky patches along the way, and more than anything else Hartley needs to play well to justify his selection ahead of the sublime Jamie George. But with his experience, the Northampton hooker is at least a player that this England squad should respect.
And it proves that Jones is not afraid to take a gamble, something that will bode well for the rest of his time as England head coach.
By Jamie Hosie
Follow Jamie on Twitter: @jhosie43
Photo by: Patrick Khachfe / Onside Images
53 replies on “Jones is right to gamble on Hartley as England captain”
I understand the sense of it
– It’s a complete break with the “culture” focus of SL. No more wittering on as if England are the only team in the world with players who let off steam at a world cup. No more excusing poor performances with “yes, but he stopped them all going mental and smashing up dwarf tossing pubs”.
– Hartley has an edge, again it’s completely different to previous. This isn’t a Lionhearted figure nobly leading his troops into battle. It’s a snarling pitbull spitting a statement into the oppositions face.
However, I for one am delighted as it has such a chance of being a total disaster :-). Hartley is already on refs radars. He has a wonderfully cavalier attitude to the idea of playing the full 80 – 10 mins rest is quite normal for him. An Eng team down regularly down to 14 with their captain of the pitch? Sounds like fun.
It could be a disaster but he’s always been a less stupid when playing for England and given he’s had one yellow in 60 something caps I don’t think we’re likely to see us down to 14 with him in the bin
Brighty, In your last paragraph I think you’ve misunderstood what I believe is the main motivation for making him captain. Refs are generally reluctant to penalise or send off the captain. And being captain and official mouthpiece for the team means he has a licence to chat away at the ref all game with a lower risk of being binned for it. I’ve seen the same thing with a scrum half I play with – making him captain probably saves somewhere between 5 and 8 penalties per game.
Hadn’t thought of that Stroudos. Would like to see how it pans out. I have painful memories of our captain being sent off pretty rapidly in quick time.
I think Jones is using this as a statement of intent of the sort of attitude (especially in defence) he wants from the team, with some obvious exceptions. He wants them to be disruptive and in the face of the opposition but hopefully not as literally as Dylan in past occasions!!
Taking out of the equation the questionable discipline…
1. Is he fit?
2. Not even first choice at club.
3. How long is he going to be in team, probably not in 2019.
Not for me.
He started their game at the weekend, and by all accounts played very well. He’s going to be 30 in March, so if he keeps he could still be in the team in three years, but I would suspect Jones will have other people in mind to take over before that.
I don’t think 33 is going to be an issue for a hooker.
Personally don’t think we need a long term choice, especially with no outstanding candidates.
Sensible move to pick someone for this 6 nations and look no further. Also, course he is first choice at Saints. He is just being worked back into fitness after a long time out with an injury.
Indeed, it’s why Ashley Johnson switched from 6 to hooker at Wasps for exactly that reason, i.e. to prolong his career a few more years.
Also George could be a fantastic impact sub whilst he learns the international ropes!
Whilst I don’t necessarily agree with the decision, I can see why Jones has picked him.
The one question I have though is does this mean he is guaranteed to start? At the moment I’m not sure he is the best player in his position. Much like Robshaw was not the best player in his position, but kept the armband regardless.
Jones had previously said he was going to wait until he had his first team on paper before selecting the captain. So can we assume that he considers Hartley the best hooker we have (on current form), or is he picking him as captain first, hooker second?
Oh how I would love a sneak peak at that team sheet!!
I think it’s pretty sensible. He has said time and again that the captain will be picked for the 6 nations alone.
So he gets to give George probably 5 test matches where he plays 30 minutes to see if he can translate his club form to test level. If we can. Jones can pick a new captain in June.
In the mean time, the guy with 60 caps starts whilst the novice learns his trade.
I completely agree with this, the simple choice at this moment is who is the best leader available, thats Hartley. Use him for the 6N then reassess the candidates before the summer tour, non-committal and simple.
I don’t think the Jamie George factor has any influence, if anything, its a benefit that George will not be thrown straight in but instead gain valuable experience from the bench.
Biggest problem is Jamie George.is a better hooker and more talented player.
Jamie George is arguably a better captain. Still, EJ has managed to do one thing that I thought would be impossible – in making Hartley the Captain he’s actually made England even more hated!
Nah, you’re right, that is impossible…
Excellent …………….Pigsy named as England captain as widely expected.
As an earlier post said EJ has managed to make England more hated than ever…..if that were possible.
To think that England Captains were usually all dullards who attended expensive English private schools.
Now we’ve got someone who was born in and lived in NZ until the latter half of his teens.
Its one thing for teams to play England and their 60+ million population..it is quite another when England selectors throw in the entire population of the former colonies and the Commonwealth as well in a desperate bid to gain soe sort of success on the international stage.
Hartley…..he’s as English as Auckland Harbour or a chilled Malborough Sauvignon blanc..
And someone whose had more bans than a CoE vicar heralding the forthcoming month’s marriages at St Hilda’s Parish Church in Grantham.
Grantham….now that’s the home town and birthplace of proper English Pig. ….or should that be an utter utter bitch.
Next we’ll hear that, after Ashton’s 6n ban, England have called up a Pacific Islander who once wore a British Army uniform some years ago and is rumoured to have drunk at least 1 pint of Waddies 6X.
True Englishmen through and through…your country needs you!
PS If your not English or even not from the Northern Hemisphere we can still fit you in somewhere
Enoch
Yes, yes, but wouldn’t Shane Howarth & Sonny Parker object to yr last sentence?!
HNY. Heh, heh.
You don’t think taking up arms and risking your life for your adopted country is enough qualification to be allowed to play a ball game for that country?
Doesn’t have to be a snarling pit bull. Ritchie M wasn’t for instance. The real ? is whether Hartley will respond to the role’s responsibility & ‘chivvy’ the whistle blower; in the nicest possible way of course.
He needs to be respected by his team & make the ‘right’ decisions & calls when the heat’s on.
If he can do all this, then he’ll be worth his place, or as near as damn it anyway.
Early days as well, so if it blows up England have time for a rethink, although I don’t see Hartley having too many options other than to make it work. Slim chance & no chance & all that.
We have to accept that Jones had his hand forced a little in terms of experience within the squad. The next pick would be Dan Cole based on that logic and he (imo) has to prove himself after a very iffy WCup.
To me this all hinges on what Jones says to Hartley between now and the 6N. I’m sure it will be made crystal to Dylan that if he does cross the line, verbally or physically,he will be stripped of the role and another candidate sought.
England do need to rediscover a bit of “dog”. At times they wilted in the face of aggressive opponents under Bomber.
Lets hope Hartley can balance aggression with common sense.
I am certain Hartley will fire up the troops and get some real fire into the bellies of the players together with Eddie that the wet blanket duo of Stu and Chris were so sadly unable to do.We need a rumbustious pack.Hartley has exactly the attitude to lead this aggressive approach.He is a risk but winners take risks.Part of the failure of the previous regime was they were risk averse
Jones is the Manager. Hartley is the captain. Can change none of these, so best to get behind the team. Me thinks the six nations could be a good tournament for England even if the captain is from NZ 🙂
Mark
Perhaps especially so?
EJ has of course pulled off a blinder. Make a kiwi your captain, because as all rugby followers know – you’re not allowed to criticise a kiwi. Brilliant! Joking aside, probably the right choice for 6N. Short term fix with experienced captain. Wait for EJ to get to know his players and team before he does anything more permanent.
A lot of cock spoken here! Hartley’s being Kiwi surely is a plus point for all the anti-English mob out there (myself being pro-English and happily not a fee-paying member of that camp)!
My acutely sensitive powers of recognising positive discrimination would argue that with his being Kiwi he at least does not conform to the pre-conceived stereotype of the ‘privileged’, ‘recieved pronunciation-speaking’, ‘middle class toff’. He is an ethnic minority! Yes….. an ethnic minority! Plus there are very few kiwis by definition (is it a population of 5 million?)
So by reason of logic he is GOOD news even if only on the PR front and not in playing terms (re current fitness and liability on the pitch which will improve over time).
Ref Enoch’s Commonwealth point: DH’s appointment is fantastic! It’s ‘culturally inclusive’, ticks all the right boxes about an English team (a nation of polyglots by birth) being led by a polyglot!
Are you being elitist and making the point that Welshmen are racially purer and have to be led by DNA blood-tested welshmen? That would be dodgy ground surely In a PC world!
With regards to him being great because of his “dog” etc that he brings to the game. I don’t see that this excuses his dickheadedness. Lots of great captains wouldn’t back down an inch, will smash anyone on a pitch – McCaw, Alun Wyn, Warburton, O’Connel, Johnson. What they are/were not is muppets who believe that car park thuggery is the same as being a strong leader on the pitch. All these words from him about it just being about his combative and rumbustious side convince me that this is going to be great fun to watch as he sounds happy with his approach.
Best tweet I saw yesterday:
“Previous offence of contact with the eye/ abuse of referees makes it a risk, but reckon Italy should prob stick with Parisse as captain”.
I honestly think his record isn’t that bad when put into context, and having a media reputation tends to lend itself to getting cited more often for little niggles that often go ignored with other players.
Schalke Burger also has bans for the same two offenses and no-one batted an eyelid when he captained SA.
I’m fine with them picking him I just don’t see why people assume that “unable to control himself on a pitch” == “excellently abrasive rugby player who won’t take a backward step”. There are plenty who exhibit the latter without the former so I don’t see why his poor disciplinary record is seen as some sort of inverse compliment, as if it implies his greater devotion to winning or something. He’s an arse. He may be a great captain as an arse, he may be incredibly aggressive (a good thing) and thunder England on to victory. He’s still an arse so I wouldn’t want that whitewashed over. Role model I care less about. I don’t see these people as role models.
There was an excellent post on Facebook somewhere, imaginary half time captains talk, with DH telling the team to keep their discipline…
Not really sure why you’ve got such a strong opinion that the guy is an arse. Seems very much liked amongst team mates and always comes across well.
I think you’re making a leap based on how is is perceived in the media.
Completely agree that having poor discipline means they’re a spiky player, the two are not related. That being said, I think the media (facebook post included…) greatly overhype this problem. As I mentioned elsewhere, the guy has just two yellows and no reds in 66 caps.
Interested to know how that compares to Warburton!
With Hartley it’s not so much counting the cards etc. as the reasons for them – gouging and calling the ref a f’ing cheat. I can have a card for stupid reasons (e.g. not diving as high as the eventual catcher was a good enough reason last year, but isn’t now, Warburton’s red is usually a yellow now, etc.) but gouging and swearing at the ref will always be viewed more dimly and, for me, make you an arse. There was also the hilarious “I’ll meet you round the back of the stadium for a fight” tussle when Northampton played Cardiff. Arses on both sides that day.
But then I am also of the opinion that Calum Clark should have been banned for life. I’m a bit fussy when it comes to some things. I know it’s not a lovely innocent game (the mock horror at Hartley in the media makes me smile, I don’t think they understand rugby) but cowardly crap gets my goat.
Calum Clark? Because of that cowardly arm-break, right? Of a hooker’s throwing arm no less, if I remember correctly. A despicable scumbag of the highest order. I never want to see him in an England shirt.
On the point of Hartley being a Kiwi, it also depends on how much weight you lend to either place of birth or parentage, especially in the modern world where there can be many combinations of both. Hartley for the record was born in NZ, but has an English mother and thus is entitled to dual nationality and for whatever personal reasons, opporuntity etc, has chosen to follow his English routes. Just to give another example of how muddled this all gets, Warburton is Welsh by birth (and growing-up) but both of his parents are English, and if both England and Wales issued passports would also be entitled to dual nationality, however, given his own experiences has decided to represent Wales and fair play to him. I admit it gets a bit greyer around the residency rules, but nevertheless they are the rules and every country has examples where you could pick on them, does it really matter that much!
Liono
Well, it seemed to matter over the preceding decade or so when my perception of the perceived wisdom up here was that the ABs only won because of all the Islanders they picked!?
I never heard anyone particularly name & shame all these dastardly PI hordes which apparently outnumbered those of Genghis, but what the hey, it all seems to be good fare nowadays innit?
As you allude to, the reality is that teams have picked & still pick according to the WR rules & like it or not, that’s it. It was ever thus.
I’m just hoping that becoming a father, as Hartley has recently, has changed his outlook somewhat. It’s amazing what fatherhood can do to change peoples attitudes and make them grow up pretty fast.
Dazza off topic, but as one of the more enlightened and reasoned Sarries supporters on this site, what do you make of Sarries £45m of debt!! I find it astonishing that we have a salary cap to stop clubs getting into the trouble that many clubs got into when the game turned pro, but no cap on debt! I’m sure Sarries are not alone in having high levels of debt, but surely this must concern fans?
Dazza
Bet the kiddy hopes his name isn’t Wayne & that he he doesn’t get a verbal backhander or two though.
It’s not England that make the eligibility rules, they play it the same as everybody else. However i seem to remember another nation fielding completely ineligible New Zealanders for there national side in a desperate bid to game some sort of success on the international stage…
The majority of Auckland Harbour and its most prominent landmarks such as the bridge were designed by Englishman with the work carried out by English firms, whilst the Marlborough wine region is named after an Englishman and populated and worked on by a majority of British decedents speaking English. So you couldn’t say either of them have no English connection at all.
Also i’d much prefer to have a man who risked his life for our country such as Rokadaguni as a compatriot than a simple minded, racist dullard as yourself.
This was obviously supposed to be a reply to Prophet Enoch…..
CR
Think only Shane Howarth was ineligible, but P. Enoch is pulling yr leg.
Don,
At least you can read this stuff in the way it is meant to be read. There again you can laugh at yourself which I am afraid the others on here are not really incapable of.
These other guys need a sack of salt to read the things I write, a pinch is too small it would seem.
“Not really incapable of”, Enoch? Have you been on the fomented leek juice again?
Rgds Enoch.
I can occasionally have a giraffe (even @ myself? Yikes!), although by the lack of responses to my above comments, not ALL may agree with this sentiment.
Hey, ho.
Roll on the 6N & see what it brings?
I don’t get the hate/ glee from English/ non English fans over the Hartley appointment. As many posters will attest, I was one of SL’s biggest critics from fairly early on in his reign, especially his “credit in the bank” mantra. HOWEVER, I do agree that Murrayfield on the opening weekend of the 6n, with a new coaching set up is not the time for wholesale changes. Hartley has rarely let England down and but a few months ago many were bemoaning his unavailability for the World cup.
I am sure Jamie George will be 1st choice soon enough, maybe by the end of the 6n, or summer tour, when perhaps the likes of Itoje or Clifford, both former age grade England captains, may have battened down starting slots and be captain material. George has what 2 caps? I’d rather introduce him once our scum issues have been addressed. My hope is that if EJ goes for experience in the starting line up, he goes for development for the bench, who cold could come on early IF the game is going our way. George, Hill, Itoje, Clifford and Daly must be in the 23 IMO. If I was going to pick a debutant to start from that list, I would probably go for Itoje, maybe Clifford, as I do worry that a backrow of Robshaw, Haskell and Billy V is a tad one paced.
Benjit, agreed, as I said in the serious part of the post above. This is a short term appointment while EJ gets to know his players. DH may be a bit of a thug, but he is an experienced captain and seems to be well liked by his team mates. Who knows, he may do well.
Robshaw was a well liked decent chap, good role model, liked by the Welsh (just kidding!) but I don’t think most of us thought that he was a good captain.
The thing that probably hasn’t been aired much is the fact that EJ didn’t have too many short term options. Possibly DH was the only one with any experience.
Haskell?
Exactly, people are complaining about who he didn’t pick in the EPS, not realizing he had used the maximum number of changes. And now he is taking the pragmatic approach to selection and tactics for his first game, recognizing the very limited time he has had with the squad. I seem to recall Gatland doing likewise for his first Wales squad, picking the Ospreys en-masse plus Martyn Williams and Stephen Jones. It’s fair to say that this bore little resemblance to the much hailed 2011 World cup team.
If Ritchie McCaw played in England I think he’d be considered an arse because of his constant professional fouls. The ABs are much more adept at cheating and getting away with it. Remember the press furore he copped was it before or during the WC which Hansen laughed off. Our attitude is still more ‘puritan’ about that side of things (call it FairPlay if you prefer: Remember England football team for starters at one of the Beckham era WCs when they got the FairPlay Award. It could be argued ‘bollocks to that ‘ we just want you to win the sodding cup so cheat away if that helps!)
Also the ABs get 5 points on the board by default before the ball has even been kicked because of their ‘winning expectation/mystique’ preset in the refs mind. Yes they are still the best team but both the above points make it harder in those close north v south hemisphere games where the winning differential is sometimes 1-3 points (several in the past two years that I can think – once with England’s NZ tour and at least once (wait for it…..with Wales!)
AlexD
Watch it! Hands off our Ritchie!
Didn’t you know that when Pocock, Schalk Burger & Ritchie went to heaven, God first asked Pocock why he should be granted entry. Pocock replied that he was a rugger role model, played clean, but hard & did lots of environmental work. God asked him to sit @ his right hand. Burger likewise said that he, having reformed, also now played hard, but fair & was an inspiration to all the underprivileged kids in SA ghettos. God asked Burger to sit @ his left hand. However, when He asked Ritchie the same question, he replied, ‘You’re sitting in my seat’!
So you see Alex, it’s definitely not your place to state that Ritchie be ‘considered an arse because of his constant professional fouls’.
And when considering fouls, you should be wary of falling foul of the Big Feller upstairs by bad mouthing RM. You’ve been warned! Keep your eyes peeled for lightning bolts.
Really disappointed that Hartley is back in favour. IMV he is a cynical cheap shot merchant always looking to get in a sly dig, and plays the game without joy. He wasn´t playing well before he missed out on the WC for what was admittedly just a bit of handbags. He´s also not the best hooker in England at present. He can scrummage and throw but George is without doubt a better ball carrier, more mobile round the field, far quicker and has better hands. (as is Tom Youngs). It sends out a clear message that at the top level no one cares how cynically you play you can still get picked. I agree entirely with Brighty about Callum Clark, and would never have let Schalk Berger, Hartley or anyone else guilty of deliberate gouging on a rugby field again. It´s a game, not an opportunity to take someone´s eye out! The other negative is that the press will no doubt put a great deal of focus on him to the detriment of reporting the positive aspects of the matches he is playing in. Hope he doesn´t last too long. Rant over!
You seem a bit like hanging judge Bob Willis.
Johnno, for instance, broke Duncan McCrae’s ribs by deliberately going into the guy with his knees on the deck. He also punched a 1/2 pint Justin Marshall out form behind etc. Do you presumably exonerate MJ though?
Hartley has a record. So do a few others, like Tuilagi’s king hitting Ashton & jumping into the drink, Care getting 1/2 cut x2 & so on.
My point is that EJ’s sees what DH CAN do & what he CAN potentially bring to England & is not so blinkered as to not give the guy another chance.
Otherwise, why sack Lancaster who gave no one a 2nd chance (or even almost a 1st in Cip’s case) & then you’ll have a 1/3rd of your team out of contention?
Besides, who’s the real alternative?
I´m not seeking to make excuses for Johnno, Don. He was certainly no angel, but if ever a bloke deserved retribution it was McCrae after what he did to O´Gara. Every team needs an enforcer, but that is different to gouging, biting and butting. Hartley`s continued misdemeanours are spread over a ten year career, which to me suggests that he hasn´t learnt much. On your other points I really hope that Jones gives Cips a crack but I can´t see it happening unless about three others get injured. Your last sentence is the most worrying one. I´d say Haskell, who has a bit of fire and a brain, but he has to nail down a place and is probably not seen as a long term solution. Aside from him, I agree the cupboard is a bit bare. Danny Care? Mike Brown? It’s a bit like Old Mother Hubbard, isn´t it?
Andy
Well I’m not sure what an enforcer actually is? Someone who dishes out ‘treatment’ to the oppo presumably? The S Times reckoned Courtney Lawes was such, but he never really materialised in the role & may not get a starting spot for England.
My view on this 1 is that if someone is hell bent on this course, it distracts from their real job of playing winning footy & with 1m TV replays, it’s a dodgy deal to get caught up with.
With Johnno’s dealing to McCrae, are you advocating violence? 1 wrong deserves another?
Regds Hartley, it’s skin off mine & I’ve already stated my opinion. EJ seems to have an open slate policy & presumably sees the positives in respect of DH. Also he likely sees little alt.
Maybe Launchbury, but no exp for a must win 1st up. Even bigger risk? Brown, dunno. May also be a bit volatile? Care, poss, but I see Joe Simpson as England’s best best 1/2 when he’s fit, so Care’s posi may be under threat anyway. Maybe. Don’t England see this as I do though.
Nxt Sat may tell more.