It was announced at the England press conference on Tuesday that centre Jonathan Joseph was a doubt for their game against Wales at the weekend, having suffered a chest injury. Andy Farrell said the Bath player was being monitored and a decision would be made on Wednesday.
“JJ has a bit of a knock, nothing too serious and we’re working hard to get him fit,” Farrell said at an England press conference at the team base in Surrey. “We’ll give JJ every chance to prove his fitness. We’ll know if he’s fit tomorrow. If he’s not, then it’s only a week long injury.”
There’s no doubt it would be a huge blow if he were ruled out. Joseph showed some nice touches against Fiji without hitting anywhere near his peak, but he was one of Wales’ tormentors-in-chief when England won in Cardiff in the Six Nations, crossing for a fine try.
In truth, however, the Fiji game left the England coaches facing more problems than answers. Here are a few of their main areas of concern heading into the Wales game:
Centres
Even if Joseph is passed fit, Lancaster still has plenty to ponder here. Brad Barritt again proved that he does not offer enough of a physical presence on the gainline against Fiji. Yes, he can run hard, but he doesn’t seem to make the requisite metres in the way that his opposite man this Saturday – Jamie Roberts – or his replacement against Fiji – Sam Burgess – does. England were noticeably more penetrative when Burgess came on, but would he be risked against Wales from the start?
If Joseph is injured, the answer to that is almost certainly no. Burgess does not have the defensive head to play 13, although Barritt could be shifted out. More likely, however, is the introduction of either Henry Slade or Owen Farrell to the midfield. Slade played no part against Fiji but is a more natural centre; Farrell is more experienced but a centre partnership of him and Barritt would offer very little attacking threat. It is the latest in a long line of English midfield dilemmas.
Fly-half
George Ford is one of the most dangerous attacking fly-halves around, but in his latest appearances he has not looked comfortable. Ford plays best when given the freedom to attack the line, because his pace and eye for the gap keeps defenders honest and creates space for those around him. Against Fiji – as against France in Paris a month previously – Ford stood deeper and did not seem interested in attacking the line.
Is it nerves? Maybe. Is it over-coaching? More likely. This England team have had an awful lot of time together this summer – more than ever before. They will have worked immensely hard on their structures and patterns, which, don’t get me wrong, are hugely important. The thing is, Ford needs to be reminded that once in a while, it’s OK to throw caution to the wind and just have a go. Run at that defender in front of you, instead of worrying about which pod of forwards you’re going to hit next or which insane back-line formation you’re going to call at the next scrum. It’s what he does best, after all.
The front five
This is arguably the most concerning of all. England’s scrum – so often a source of penalties and go-forward ball – has been second best to France, Ireland and even Fiji in the past month. Joe Marler and Dan Cole have been superb for the past year and more, so most likely, the problem is in the make-up of the engine room.
Geoff Parling is a peculiar proposition – he quite clearly steadies the line-out, which I think is as much to do with the confidence he gives Tom Youngs from their years together at Leicester, as his actual ability at leaping and catching. Courtney Lawes, meanwhile, has been England’s best lock of the past few years and is hugely mobile and aggressive. The problem comes in playing them together, which would appear to underpower England’s scrum.
So, will Joe Launchbury come back in? Probably not, although maybe he should. Launchbury is as mobile as Lawes, but looks to have packed on a few pounds over the summer and would be a robust addition to the engine room. Given Parling looks key to the line-out, Lawes would be the man to give way – harsh, but it may be the answer to England’s scrum troubles.
Whatever Lancaster decides, he has more selection headaches than he would have hoped for, going into the two weeks that will define England’s World Cup.
By Jamie Hosie
Follow Jamie on Twitter: @jhosie43
Photo by: Patrick Khachfe / Onside Images
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Please don’t move Barritt to 13 to put Burgess or Farrell at 12! Slade has to play 13 and I’d opt for Burgess at 12.
I second this proposal. I’d be gutted if Joseph missed out, he is our best 13. However, Slade and Burgess were excellent against France the other week. Really impressive, both individually and as a partnership. It looked like they’d been playing together for months, there seemed to be a natural chemistry between them. Also, it’s a nice dynamic: smash em bro at 12 and a creative playmaker at 13 – and that summary I think is actually unfair on Slammin Sam, who I think actually runs more imaginative angles than you might expect, has soft hands and a neat offloading game (which his teammates need to anticipate better).
Missing JJ would be a blow for sure, but as long as we see Slade come in as a direct replacement then I won’t be worried at all. Any other combination and I might be!
I’m really not worried about Ford either. The problem isn’t his, or at least, it is but he has always been this way. Without good front foot ball no 10 of his nature looks any good. Get over the gainline and that will allow us to generate good quick ball; and we’ll then watch Ford wreak havoc. Farrell, not the most natural playmaker, looked great when he came on. It had nothing to do with him being a better playmaker than Ford and everything to do with the fact he came on with Burgess, the Vunipolas and Lauchbury. With that lot on, we got over the gainline and it gave Wood/Robshaw half a chance of securing quick front foot ball, not having them back peddling to each ruck.
The scrum problem and gainline problem can be helped in one swoop by bringing in George and Launchbury. B.Vunipola I assume will start too. I’d also be tempted to bring in Burgess for Barritt but it’s a big call.
I agree with every word except the last 5.
Against Warrenball and Roberts I think Burgess will do fine. Wouldn’t want to see him try and play Australia but happy against the style of play we have seen from Wales for the last 6 years
I’d actually been stating exactly that yesterday on another thread. If Burgess is to come in, it’s against Wales. None of their back line have the guile of a Conrad Smith or Giteau to stand him up and make him look a fool. Still think it is a huge call though. Barritt is limited but hugely reliable, Burgess has played the game 10 months.
Totally agree with Leon and Jacob here – if Burgess gets a start, should be against Wales and Jamie Roberts. Certainly not Australia. Yes Roberts is a world class centre but he is not difficult because he pulls the line out of shape and exploits holes… he’s tricky because he is a massive tank of a ball carrier. Something Burgess is perfect to address. Having said that if Williams is at fullback (and not injured) I would worry about him joining the line and attacking a dog leg when Burgess charges up to quick (something Tuilagi had a habit of doing as well). He is a nightmare to defend against when he starts doing that…
Agree with almost everyone here inc Henry. Williams is much more dangerous ball in hand than Halfpenny
God only knows who the Welsh will manage to put out, but if Roberts is playing then I’m definitely less concerned about Burgess starting. Roberts is hardly going to bamboozle him with his twinkling toes and stunning sidestep
If JJ is not fit though, I’m not sure we can go with a starting centre partnership of Burgess and Slade.
My nightmare is seeing the team sheet with the name Farrell at 12 and Barritt at 13…
Agree with Twelvestocks – it’s got to be Burgess and Slade who have played together and looked good, a good pairing to face Wales centre pairing but not so sure about the Aussies. Vunipola likely to start in place of Morgan too given his knee knock. Interesting that Tom Youngs made the top 15 side from the French press review of round 1 yet is slagged off in UK however watching NZ play we do need a hooker who can hook, NZ were amazing, who of our 3 can hook like that ?
Tom Youngs was superb in defence. I think we stick with him to start. I like to think that they could put George on the bench but I am not sure they will.
I would be disappointed if they veered away from Slade as the replacement 13. Surely that is what he is in the 31 for?
If so, I would certainly stick with Barritt at 12. There is more to Jamie Roberts that his bulk, he is a clever player, who picks clever lines of running, and I really believe we need our top defence in play. Granted last week was not Barritt’s finest game, but I do think that he deserves another go.
If Morgan is not fit? Haskell on the bench, or Kruis? (utilising Launchbury as the spare BR)
I’m not too concerned what ever centres England pick, Roberts will be running at 10 not 12 and Scott Williams has the hand off and the speed to run into a gap at 13.
This games going to be won and lost with the forwards. If England get the upper hand in the scrum and line out, as I suspect they will, particularly with the Wales 3rd string subs coming on, then they will win comfortably.
You have more confidence in England’s set-piece than most of us then…
Without Samson Lee Wales will struggle. Even if he is “fit” enough to start he won’t last and then we are looking under strength or over the hill
Have you seen Thomas Francis? He’s been doing pretty well so far at scrum time. I don’t think he’ll last too well though but if Lee is fit enough for a half then they’ll be fine. I’d love your predictions to be true but I have much Iess confidence.
Telegraph is reporting that Farrell and Burgess in the starting 15 at 10 and 12 and…wait for it…Barritt at 13 to replace Joseph.
Scott Williams will be licking his lips. Back three for England will not see any ball. This seems a very retrograde step. No word yet on changes to fwds, though Morgan tipped to start.
If this god awful selection is true I hope to god that Slade is on the bench, so they can at least revert to the promising midfield from the first warm up match.
Centre combination number 14 for Lancaster. Jesus wept.
JJ is the one back we didn’t injured because there is no clear replacement combination as there are risks with whoever.This evens things up between the teams 10-13 and makes this match even more difficult to call.I do think however if England don’t at least achieve par we are likely to lose.Moment of truth approaches for Stu
I meant to say achieve par up front
Speculation is that Goode is on the bench
I really hope the Telegraph has got this wrong, if right I reckon this is how it must have played out
SL: Sh*t, we’ve lost JJ
MC: Damn, he’s the reason we started scoring some tries
SL: Isn’t that down to me telling the guys to play for the shirt?
MC: No, it’s all down to JJ
SL: But I’ve been talking about playing with width and tempo for 3.5 years, I think they’ve got the message now. The game plan is clear. So who is the next cab off the rank?
AF: My boy can play
MC: Luther Burrell
SL: OK that’s settled
MC: … err you dropped him
SL: So who’s the next but one cab off the rank?
AF: My boy can play
MC: Slade
SL: Too risky, I’m going with Barritt
MC: But he’s a 12, who takes his shirt?
AF: My boy can play
SL: I want a plan to stop Roberts, a bit like Worsley did, who’s the closest we have to Worsley?
GR: Burgess, potential to be a world class 6
SL: Excellent choice, great leader
AF: OK, so my boy is 10 then?
SL: OK
GR: Great, now the backs are sorted, can I pick some bigger boys upfront? Some of them were excellent off the bench last week?
SL: No, I’ve made enough changes already, any more and it will look like I don’t know what I’m doing, plus I don’t want to weaken the bench any further … because I’m already putting Alex Goode on it
Farrell and Burgess I’m quite happy with (based on the performance in first warm up game and last week), but Barritt at 13 makes no sense, probably some crazy logic like he is better at rucking and that was an area of weakness. At least put Slade on the bench so we have a better chance of getting our quick men into the game. But no, Goode is the best option as a second playmaker, so let’s have him come on and take our best player off the pitch (or moved out of position where he is less effective than the man he would replace).
If the logic is it will be a tense, tight and attritional game then don’t pick a pack for pace and mobility. Add some power.
This sounds like 2011 all over again, novice coaches, under pressure, starting to make poor judgement calls.
OK rant over, I’d better finish the work I haven’t got done today and get back to wearing the rose.
One of the best posts I’ve read in a while!
Matt love AF!Made me laugh.The only upside to total sense of frustration I feel with this incompetent selection.This could mean we are on our way out of the cup.
Matt, that imaginary conversation is hilarious! Would be even funnier if it didn’t have such a ring of truth to it.
The scrum won’t decide the game as they will be uncontested quite early in the game if Wales do not call up any replacements. Or perhaps all the injury talk are smoke and mirrors from both camps ??
Mail confirms what I said above. They also state Goode is on the bench, and covering 10. If this is true, this could be the end of Lancaster. It would destroy this whole ethos of values if Ford was so unceremoniously scape goated.
I really hope it’s not true.
Do you all honestly think that if Bomber calls on Burgess that Gatland won’t alter his strategy accordingly? This is a game England dare not lose and it appears that Lancaster’s selection policy is coming home to haunt him now. By that I mean the lost opportunities in the AI’s and 6n to blood Slade and Daly in time for this tournament thereby minimising the “what if” factor.
To try and render a silk purse from this particular sow’s ear,I’d go for Slade and Barritt. Hardly ideal,although Slade could bring Watson and May into the game more with his distribution skills and I’m sure he has the temperament to cope with the occasion.
Up front England need more poundage and more aggression. Cole is in the last chance saloon for me ,as is lawes who needs a kick up the arse.He’s been very quiet for the last 4 games. Again it raises questions over the squad composition. This game is tailor made for Attwood and pairing him with JL would have been my option. I’d go JL,Parling with Kruis on the bench and I may be tempted to start with Wilson at 3. George on the bench, and hope that Youngs T gets his darts right.
Interestingly Dan Cole perhaps unwittingly let a very large cat out of the bag when in a recent interview he said “would I like a Six foot ten, 150 kg lock behind me in the scrum?,perhaps,but you have to go with what you have”. Take note SL.
Just heard Williams looks to be fit for the game, Francis is also likely to start as well.
Cant’ wait for the game, sorry to hear about JJ though; far to many injuries flying about.
Please God tell me that the Telegraph has got it wrong. Please tell me that Ford hasn’t been scapegoated for the forwards’ failings. Please tell me that Barritt hasn’t been moved to 13 with Burgess at 12. And most of all, please tell me that Alex Goode is not on the bench.
If this is true then I’m afraid it’s an utter disaster.
How will our back 3 (about the only continually positive aspect of our play recently) see any ball? Who will be passing to them?
How can SL talk about team ethos if after a couple of iffy games played behind a poor pack and with a misfiring scrum half, he drops the man in possession of the 10 shirt, the man who has re-vitalised England’s attack?
If true I can’t see any positives in this or for that matter any logic whatsoever. Especially given that Ford steered England to a win against an absolutely full strength Wales away in the 6 nations
If true, Wales will win this with something to spare I’m afraid.
They’ll have to wait for Wales to kick it to them. Unfortunately (from a Welsh perspective) they do this quite often!
I smell blind panic in SL’s mind and has cracked under the pressure.His whole selection policy from day 1 is to chop and change and constant trial and error.No consistency.Players must feel very insecure and unsettled.Has all the makings of a disaster and Confidence in the Welsh camp has risen.They will believe deep down they can and will win.What a bloody mess
Agree with all the comments, Farrell Burgess and Barritt will strike fear into……Uruguay … perhaps. Time to think about what shirt to wear to watch the knock out games, the red rose one looks in tatters. Finally we get a set of backs who can compete with anyone & leave all but the back 3 out of the side & keep the misfiring pack intact for the most important pool game of RWC 2015 – win this and we are in QF. Totally Unbelievable and only hope it is a wind up with SL playing mind games with Wales
Farrell for Ford I could deal with, with Barritt at 12 and if JJ is injured, Slade at 13. Then Ford on the bench with Burgess. That wouldn’t be too crazy. But if he’s gone for Barritt at 13 and Goode on the bench then he really has buckled. Dismayed.
Exactly Matt – what’s the point in Salde if you’re not going to play him? He’s not like for like with Joseph, but his defence is one of the most consistent in the premiership, he’s quick and elusive, can kick and is a very good distributor, He could be England’s version of Conrad Smith.
What earthly reason can there be for not bringing him in?
if Telegraph is right…. Aaaarrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!
[goes to sob gently in the corner]
That is all
I don’t get this, Wales suffers half a dozen injuries and we are supportive and quietly confident about our chances. You guy’s get 1 injury and all I see is doom & gloom, seriously lads back your team, As has been said multiple times – It takes a squad to win a world cup, that means depth – if you cant win it with injuries you don’t deserve to win it.
I don’t necessarily want to talk on behalf of everyone and there will be some on here that will disagree with what I am about to say, however, don’t get some of us wrong, come Saturday in the pub (or at the ground if you’re lucky enough) we will be willing them on with every ounce of willingness we have!!
However, it’s not the injury per se it’s just that despite all the rhetoric that SL comes out with about balance, posession of the shirt etc (and I agree with you that it takes a squad not a team to win the world cup), its just that if the talegraph is right those decisions fly completly in the face of the all he has been saying and would appear to be making our chances of winning to us at least so much more difficult and therefore for the moment, this provides a great forum to temporarily vent said frustrations. If it was just JJ out and bring in the like for like Slade, (even a switch from Farrell to Ford could be justified I suppose if Ford drops back to the bench) that would be fine, but if true these decisions just don’t seem to make sense…
It’s not the injury we are complaining about. Joseph out is a blow, but most fans would be happy for Slade to come in. Having Barritt retained after that horror show of a performance feels like a kick in the nuts, especially if neither Slade or Ford are in the 23 and Goode is.
Only Wales fans should be happy with this.
JJ injured does not equal doom and gloom because we have Slade in the squad.
Media leaks Lancasters selections equals doom and gloom because it looks like we have selected a very blunt weapon to attack with
As a Welshman, when I heard that JJ was probably out, my first thought was “I really hope he picks Burgess instead”. My second thought was “I really hope he doesn’t pick Slade”. Then picking Farrell as well… It feels like it’s going to be a good day!
Oh god I hope the rumours aren’t true or I may be writing an apology post to Benjit for all the disagreeing we’ve been doing so far this year…
Farrell for Ford makes sense, I get that in isolation. But surely with JJ out, he either needs to bring Slade in?
If he isn’t sure this is the game for Slade (potentially a valid opinion), then Burgess and Barritt come together.
Not if that amount of logic got him there, without thinking, hang on, without a creative centre we might be best served playing our most creative 10 in order to create some balance in the 3/4 line, then I was wrong all along – SL is well out of his depth.
If Ford is altogether dropped from the squad then it gets even worse. If he insists on that starting 3/4 then surely Ford/Nowell makes the most sense to change things up?
I’m sure us being in agreement is one of the signs of the apocalypse! Sadly this is now widespread across the media, so is likely true.
Can someone, ANYONE, explain the logic behind this. It’s a very negative section and seems to imply that we will just kick chase as we did against Aus in the AIs. Goode on the bench infers to me that we may be going for a 5/2 split on the bench. SL is probably anticipating that Wales will have the upper hand at the breakdown, or uncontested scrums and wants extra back row cover.
Shouldn’t we select our best side and not one purely to negate the opposition?
Good point on uncontested scrums, having a 5/2 split might well make sense in that scenario. If that was true though, surely Slade is the best utility back option we have over Goode?
If at any point we have to see Goode play at 10 during this WC then we have a serious problem; he should be 4th choice based on the 31 we have picked.
Here’s a thought, from an accredited fan of Ford over Farrell.
Fiji upset England’s flow in the first half with a real quick rush defence. It needed to be countered with a 10 lying deeper, which Ford wasn’t comfortable with, and it wasn’t really fixed until Vunipola and Burgess came on and were able to punch holes, and get the defenders more “back-footed”.
This is clearly how Wales will defend so there is a logic behind Burgess coming in at 12, not so much for his defence, but for his attack.
Wales attack through 10-13 so it makes perfect sense to retain Barritt.
Isn’t Burgess/Barritt yet another new combination, previously untried?
It’s further ammo to the notion that Lancaster has no idea what his 2nd or 3rd, choice midfield combinations are, or should be.
As a Welshman, hearing JJ was out this was the midfield I was hoping for. Goode on the bench is the cherry on top. Farrell at OH sweetens the deal even further. If he names Morgan too then i’ll be in dreamland.
Garces as ref… meh, indifferent on that one.
Yes it is another new combination. I don’t think its so much that SL doesn’t know what he wants, but that nobody tried has really performed that well.
SL wants Tuilagi and Barritt.
Without Tuilagi he has tried Twelvetress, Burrell, Farrell and Burgess- the first promised much and delivered little, the second wasn’t bad but never really hit the heights, the third was a stop-gap and the fourth is a bit of an unknown gamble but in the right combo, not a bad gamble to my mind
When Barritt has been injured he’s tried JJ and Slade – the first has performed very well, making himself one of the first names on the team sheet. The second is a form pick who has the potential but not the experience
There is an argument for going for a combo and sticking with it irrespective of form – but that would have meant we’d have never seen JJ
And its not like there’s anyone else in the premiership really sticking their hand up at inside centre.
Our problem with this selection is the combo. Barritt at outside centre means little to no distribution to our pretty dangerous back three. Burgess could go well at inside centre but he’s not going to be flinging miss-passes out to the wings. Which could be fine with a creative ten but instead we have the worthy, reliable but hardly inspired Farrell
And then, to add insult to injury, we apparently have A Goode on the bench. Quite apart form that meaning that we can alter the game plan if its not going well, what happens if Farrell gets injured?
Also, can the RFU please hunt down whoever leaks the teams to the media and hang him up outside Twickenham by his cojones. This leak just gives Gatland all the more time to adjust his strategy
Farrell 10, Burgess 12 and Barritt 13 is now being stated by the BBC too. It wouldn’t be my selection or seemingly any other fan’s, but remembering from an England perspective it’s all about the win there isn’t going to be much change from these 3 when it comes to Warrenball. It’s a selection to negate the Wales gameplan even though it means we’ve no creativity in our own backline. Thus leaving it as a forward battle. In ordinary circumstances I’d back the England pack, but the way the set piece and the breakdown have been going I’m not so sure.
Well England are still going to win and Wales are still going out at the pool stage.
The doom and gloom from the English fans on these threads is so amusing to read yet so incredible to see.
It is WALES who are screwed by injuries and do not have the player pool to draw enough decent replacements from.
On this page so many England fans are painting a bleak picture that suggests Wales have anything other than a very very slight chance of victory on Saturday.
That said if England don’t get their act together (namely play as they did v Fiji) they will go out in the early k.o. stage of the tournament. Amen to that.
I don’t think anyone has said Wales aren’t screwed by injuries. We’re just concerned with our own selectorial idiocies.
Please remind us again how supportive and constructive in your criticism you are when Gatland picks Priestland, Cuthbert, Philips (or anyone from Cardiff) and doesn’t select Tipuric?
The reason we are all so concerned about the loss of this one player, if the rumours are correct, is we haven’t lost 1 player, we have in effect lost 4 as 11, 14 and 15 will only be participating in kick chase.
Matt if u watched those 3 players when they play and actually knew something about rugby you would know how awful they are. The 4 wales based regional teams r on TV every weekend on bbc2 wales and s4c so i see them week in week out all season. Tips is the best 7 we have but cement head refuses to accept how special he is as it means breaking up sw DL tf in the chosen backrow for eternity meanwhile Cardiff were almost bottom of the pro12 , the loos have been awful , utterly awful for years as was cardiff rfc b 4 the regions were forcedon wales by wru. But the loos still get their players picked on the basis of being the club next door to the wru and because gatland has those he loves and those he loathes.
Don’t complain when England are going to crush gethin Jenkins at the scrum on Saturday as they have in the last 2 6n games. U are benefitting . Philips is an embarassment both on and of the pitch but thinks and even says he is world’s best 9 . he is just rubbish, slow and well passed it. His passing is ponderous and he has a brain the size of a flea.
I would agree that Burgess may be useful going forward but with Brad’passing is for losers’Barritt outside him Wales can hit Burgess with double tackles knowing the ball won’t be going anywhere