Comments on: Positives and negatives from the South Africa tour

By: stroudos

stroudos — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 13:17:46 +0000

Alternatively, why not have Armand at 8? In my humble opinion, that’s his best position. I’d like to see this back row (fitness permitting):
6 – Simmonds
7 – Underhill
8 – Armand

By: acee

acee — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 16:33:41 +0000

Good articles in the Rugby Paper today by Guscott and Cain. Both saying much the same thing which is concerning in itself.
Jezza thinks ,like myself,that Mr Ed will go back to Cole, hartley etc for the autumn. We won’t win the W cup with kids but at the same time we are way behind the other home nations in terms of blooding new talent which, given the respective sizes of player bases ,is bloody ridiculous.
Personally, i think we are in a parlous state. If the oldies go well against the ‘boks and NZ,we’ll be convinced that the SA tour was merely a blip in Ed’s great plan for world domination. conversely, more defeats and dull performances leave us up pooh creek with a year to go and no time to really set matters straight.
Hopefully, and i genuinely mean this, at least one of the other three home nations will do well at the worldie, even if we stink the place out!

By: Don P

Don P — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 12:19:28 +0000

Acee
Regrds. From a selfish POV, it will likely trouble the SH in the autumn & during the WC if Jones’ does address the now exposed cracks in his rugby game ‘plan’, so I hope he doesn’t adapt accordingly. However, as you point out, the AI’s may indeed show more. Could win 3 of 4? Or the lot? However, it will be telling, which you also mention, as to how England play & whom they pick, personnel wise, to do so.

By: acee

acee — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 10:11:34 +0000

Many good points in there Don. The AI’s will tell us an awful lot about “learning experiences” and what needs to improve “going forwards”. I suspect but hope i’m wrong, that we’ll see Ed go back to the tried and tested in terms of players,particularly at hooker and in the back row in general.
That may work short term but will only serve to highlight the missed opportunity of blooding young/fringe players if the old boys fail to turn things around. It’s all getting a bit messy…………

By: Don P

Don P — Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:15:31 +0000

A win’s a win? I suppose. Important? Probably, but more for Jones than his team? England will learn a lot from the tour? But what exactly? This ‘learning’ utterance is often trotted out, but I don’t recall ever seeing specific ‘learned’ lessons being listed. I’ve opined often that England have issues @ breakdown & midfield, but has Jones even recognised these? If so he’s shown precious little in demonstrating he has done so. After 3 years, there’s no discernible change in patterns of play let alone having an established back row or inside back line to address these problem areas. For me, Jones has become the issue for England, not the solution. He seems to lack the capacity to grasp with & therefore address, these problem areas for his team. Sure, some repositioning of, or trying players in some positions may help, but they need to have a better game plan to implement better plays. He also needs to confirm his captain. This will also likely have some bearing on team performance. Whether the Premiership is an effective ‘school’ for aspiring international players, is @ best debatable. If the clubs play different styles, e.g., it doesn’t help England, but it is what it is & SCW won a WC with it. Central contracts, a national playing style & a franchise system between club & international level might also be effective, it would all require major surgery & I don’t see that happening anytime soon (ever?). As said, it is what it is & the WC’s beckoning. England have the players, numbers certainly & also some skilled enough, but do they have nous @ the top to fully utilise them, especially in pivotal positions within effective playing patterns good enough to win that big silver jug next year? That is the ?

By: Leon

Leon — Fri, 29 Jun 2018 07:52:36 +0000

I know its a wild theory and probably more hope than reality but is there a chance that Eddie is holding back on selecting Robson so that he comes into the team at the world cup as a bit of an unknown element to the opposition. Have them all setting up for Youngs and Care and then throw a maverick into the mix. he has had him in a few training camps and has watched him plenty in the prem so he knows what he is capable of

By: Mr B

Mr B — Thu, 28 Jun 2018 12:03:34 +0000

Plan A works if teams can’t play against it, one of our main problems, said it before lack of Plan B, closely followed by lack of depth in key areas.

Picking Cipriani is a smallish turn a different player to Ford but can clearly play for the team now but also turn it on when needed plus Ford is the only 10 in the side, some argue Farrell is but he hasn’t moved any further away from 12 than the number 13 and we need Robson WE NEED HIM! Youngs and Care just are to predictable.

Nathan Hughes needs to be dropped and forgotten, every game, not just this series, every game he has deputised for Billy in he has failed to excite and as a fellow commenter said previously his body position is to high and that’s why he get’s tackled and fails to make yardage.

Now is the time for Daly to be tried at 13 and possibly some back three rotation including Brown, Watson and Nowell as full back covers continues to worry.

I must applaud Jonny May though, previously a harsh critic of his, I used to refer to him as The Crap Tailor as he always cut inside, I echo the comments in that he now has a good Rugby brain to back his blistering pace and backs himself in a straight line and also goes looking for work.

By: Geraint

Geraint — Thu, 28 Jun 2018 10:41:41 +0000

I am not unduly concerned. Selection may have been quirky but I saw a huge amount in the first 20 minutes in tests 1&2 to say this is not a bad team.

My view is more structural. I do not believe the premiership is capable of supporting and producing success for England at international level. So much of Irelands capability at the moment is governed by control of players and England’s core looked exhausted…

I also have a theory which most think is extreme but I believe Jones has set up to test against extremes recently – and I think will have learned a lot from this tour. Add to that the well of experience having good pre-seasons for the first time in ages i’m not too worried about 2018/19. I always anticipated a dip in results and genuinely think a growth phase will begin again.

However, I was concerned that Lozowski and Robson did not play -more worrying was the lack of presence from Nathan Hughes, a player I defended significantly until he proved me wrong one too many times…..

By: bolter

bolter — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 14:31:32 +0000

Ben H
Remember also how the Japanese players were desperate to get rid of him and his marionette training sessions! There were anecdotes of people hiding under tables rather than face him!
What does this say about his infantilising grown men?
Campese also said he would force people to rigidly stick to his game plan and England would be robotic under him.

By: Ben H

Ben H — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 14:05:20 +0000

Agree Bolted, excellent article if depressing.

By: Mike

Mike — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:22:04 +0000

I always thought Jonny May was a bit of a one trick pony a few years ago, but he has really developed. Hopefully he can keep injury free next season and keep his form going into the world cup.

By: Steve H

Steve H — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 11:34:36 +0000

Negatives outweigh the positives by quite a margin for me.
Several players didnt produce, several trod water, several definitely took a step back and several didnt even get on the pitch!
Two players were resounding successes : Johnny May and Tom Curry. Both played consistently well.
Thereafter we are looking at a number who put in the odd decent game and contributed the odd decent moment. I’m afraid some just didnt do themselves justice and may discarded. From a 3 test series, that really isn’t a great return.
Losing 1-2 is a major negative. Playing so poorly in the first 2 tests is a major negative. That we pulled ourselves together for the 3rd test and played a bit better was much welcomed, but across 3 tests our level of performance wasn’t up to scratch.
We still have big questions on our best XV, on the 9-13 positions, on the back row make up and the pecking order in multiple positions. Are we really going to persist with Farrell at 12?
Quite how we take 3 SH’s on tour, disregard one completely and only give 10 minutes exposure to one more strikes me as completely idiotic. Its not as if Youngs was tearing it up.
The coaching was uneven, as it has been for the last season. Our forward play lacks authority and defensively we were all at sea at times. Losing Gustard may be no bad thing, but you have to ask just what Hatley and Borthwick are doing with the players.
And Eddie Jones? Prickly at times and over defensive. He plainly isn’t getting the best out of the players. I suspect they are being over trained and over coached. Sometimes less is more.