Tell us what you thought of this afternoon’s match at Twickenham.
Give the game a rating and let us know your thoughts on the key talking points.
Loading ...Rate the Match: England v France 2017
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Attritional rugby and the team with most attacking threat lost, but at least England showed enough belief to edge home. The bench definitely made a difference. For next week I would put Itoje back in the second row and start with Woods and Haskell at 6 and 7. Care is way sharper than Youngs and has a much quicker pass, and I would always have Nowell’s aggression in front of Daly. Hartley was completely anonymous and has to go. George, Taylor and Cowan Dickie are all better prospects for the next World Cup and the fact that we came from behind after he went off gives the lie to his influence as as a leader. Leaders lead from the front like Johnson and O’Connell, not from the fringes.
Agree with all your changes, the tempo and power was upped immeasurably once the subs had been made. Think England really missed another big ball carrier and tackler, Hughes did a job but not enough on his own.
Woods was poor, gave away too many penalties and was often turned over when he ran with the ball.
Youngs was way too slow getting the ball out and Care adds so much pace when he comes on. Yes his box kicking is poor but think that is forgivable.
Hopefully Watson and Nowell will both be fit so they can take their places back on the wings, cant help but think that either would have finished the try Daly was close to finishing.
Sorry but Wood actually played well. I agree about putting Itoje back to lock and bringing in Haskell. I would have Lawes as impact off the bench.
I would probably also have Care coming in for Youngs. Though his box kicking needs a bit of work.
I think it is time for the 2 wasps no 9’s to be looked at as well.
We are really missing Billy V’s go forward ball. Picamole showed how important it was for France.
I would also bring in Nowell for Daly and have him as cover on the bench. I do think that Brown will be replaced after this 6 nations with either Daly or Watson taking the spot. Even Nowell could take it.
We do need to remember though that England still won the match. That was not a fluke, but a side that knows how to grind out wins.
Three things I didn’t like about Tom Wood on Saturday:
1. Late challenge and unnecessary handbags on Serin. I want to see flankers scrapping with other flankers, not bullying scrumhalves!
2. Gave away a couple of silly penalties.
3. Terrible hair. Come on mate, you’re not Chabal, get that monstrosity cut immediately.
Things we have learnt :
Play the best players in their best positions – Itoje is not an International flanker
Hughes is not international level
Neither is Wood – a stop gap nothing more
Haskell made a big difference
Youngs is not always good for country
George is our best hooker.
God we missed Robshaw
Agree with most of this Pablito. Maybe a bit harsh on Wood who gave absolutely everything and didn’t do much wrong, but Hughes is too upright at contact and disappears for long periods of the game.. Itoje might make an international 6 but would need to play there for a couple of seasons at club level which isn’t going to happen. We certainly miss Robshaw, but if Haskell played at six and Wood at seven with Beaumont at eight we would still have quite an abrasive back row. Don’ t rate Harrison. Maybe bring back the Tank Engine as a short term solution! There are at least three scrum halves who get a back line moving better than Youngs. It will also be interesting to see if EJ puts Daly in the centre in place of JJ and brings back Nowell, who is properly hostile on the wing. Thought Brown was pretty well faultless this week, and was pleasantly surprised that Cole seems to have stopped folding quite so readily, and didn’t give away any penalties.
Wood did nothing wrong but that’s the problem. Thats always been the best you can say about him
Itoje was poor at flanker and it was noticeable just how much more effect he had when moved to lock.
Robshaw is the glue of the team who does all the hard work. His like are gold dust. His type of player is exactly what Ireland were missing today and his absence made England that much weaker
Beaumont. Who knows? Not exactly been tearing up trees this season. Hughes has been worked out by defences. Would rather see Morgan who has rarely had a bad gane for England if ever.
Please dont mention Waldrom who is not an international player
Daly was excellent but No well needs to be in the starting team
Brown was indeed faultless and I am so glad that EJ didn’t listen to the Goode fans
Not sure Brown was completely faultless. One kick the French put down the left wing and Brown should have been in position to claim but was nowhere near. Ball bounced back and picked up by France put us under serious pressure.
You say that Wood did nothing wrong but that’s all we can expect from him, but you could say the same about Brown. Predictably ran the ball back in a straight line with not a hint of a pass, grubber, up and under or anything resembling a good counter attack. Reliable in defence, severely lacking in attack.
Was joking about Waldron Pablito. Great at club level but too slow around the park for internationals. Haven’t seen enough of Morgan to judge this year, but always thought his fitness was a bit suspect. As a Harlequins supporter have always been a big fan of Robshaw, but if he is out for the whole six nations EJ will have to make do.
Expect to see Itoje moved back to lock next week but I wouldn’t change anything else in the pack.
Think Hughes criticism is harsh, he carried a lot and normally made the gainline. Not loads of hard but always hard yards in the tight. To say he isn’t international standard after his second start seems very premature considering he was very good in the last one.
Think we need Nowell back in. Personally I’d drop Brown and move Daly to 15. Brown is still so blinkered in attack. Carrying hard and making is tackles isnt enough.
Absolutely with you Jacob. Hughes did most of the carrying and would benefit from Haskell starting.
I agree we really miss Robshaw. I like the idea of Itoje being able to cover at 6. But agree he should not start there.
Youngs at his best is excellent. But he inconsistent. I think he is off form at the mo and I would send him back to his club for the next round and bring in Robson from wasps, who is on form.
I think we need to give Hartley another go as he is important as captain and this was his 1st game back. But I agree George is the long term replacement and think will be the No1 hooker by next years championship.
I think Wood gets a bad rap. I thought he played well and works hard. Though I would rather have Robshaw and Haskell back together.
Hughes has not impressed me so far and is a pale imitation of Billy V. Though I would not get rid of completely as he has the ability there.
When you’re 15 from 15 you tend not to want wholesale changes but I still think we need to step up a gear and that’s only going to come with some bold selections. In particular I still question whether the Ford-Farrell partnership offers more than having a true 12 (and you couldn’t fault Teo’s line) and whether Mike Brown has the vision to set up a counter attack which doesn’t stop before the halfway line. Pablito is right, let’s start playing people in their proper positions so Farrell at 10, Teo at 12, JJ at 13 and a back 3 of May, Nowell and Daly at 15. Farrell has the vision to open up defences and Ford just isn’t enough of a running threat like Barrett. I’m not entirely convinced by Teo but unless anyone knows a better 12 I think he has to play. And Hartley’s days are surely numbered.
Such short term nonsense.
Surely it’s too early to write Hughes off as an international class player, he was good in his previous game for England.
Yes Young’s didn’t have his best game, if he does the same against wales by all means drop him but not yet.
Why start playing players in position? 14 on the trot with the Ford-Farrell axis.
Rubbish. If a player doesnt cut it then he shouldn’t be picked. Your kind of thinking is what leads to players like Noon or Barrett picking up loads of caps
Hughes was OK in the previous game, nothing more. As I said above I’d rather see Morgan
Youngs wasnt bad enough to drop.
I’m still not sure what it is about Hughes that is making your write him off? He carried more than anyone yesterday, almost always tight to the ruck, and rarely went backwards. He’s not Vunipola and yesterday wasn’t his most outstanding game but the reaction is way over the top.
We played poorly across the board yesterday but there is no overreaction needed.
Really missed Billy V today. Needed someone to get over the gain line regularly like Picamoles did for France. Not sure about wholesale changes. Let’s not forget that France were very hard to beat today. However am sure that Eddie will make some changes after today.
Whilst I rate Morgan and agree he’s always been decent for England, I don’t think it was an outrageous call to put Hughes in, average club form, excellent against Australia, Definetly needs to get involved more but more to come from him I think.
With your train of thought, you’d have. I continuity, a bit like France of recent times.
EJ picked the wrong starting line up. I don’t think he’ll make the same mistake twice.
Itoje at flanker – the experiment was a disaster and he played much better once restored to his natural position.
Lawes looked ineffective at times so i would prefer to see Itoje and Launchbury next time with Lawes dropped to the bench. EJ could call up Kvesic as a stop gap or Sam underhill (both now available and fit)
Haskell was a revelation once more in the second half so has to start next up against Wales.
Hughes needs persevering with as he showed promise with one barn-storming run though I’d be tempted to recall Morgan whose never let England down at 8.
Its about time George started with the captain’s armband given to Launchbury or even Brown. Neither would fail England.
Daly back to centre and Nowell to the wing.
Which of the the starting centres today would you drop for Daly? Presumably Joseph? I have to say, that seems a little reactionary to me, Joseph didn’t exactly dazzle, but it wasn’t the sort of match to facilitate that and defensively, he is solid. I must say, I would move Daly to the bench and bring Nowell back in, very harsh on Daly, but Nowell needs to be back in the side and Daly will bring serious pace from the bench. I agree with you on everything else.
Kvesic is currently second choice behind Rowan at Glos at the moment. Not playing well. The move to Exe may help, but as of now, he should be no where near the England squad.
Youngs and Ford were well off par. Hartley was useless. Hughes shouldn’t have to do all the carrying. Keep Itoje at 6, Haskell in at 7. Daly at 15 with Nowell and May on the wings. T’eo to start with Faz at 10. Care to start and get Robson in the bloody squad!!
I agree re Faz at 10 and Ben at 12.Nowell for sure but toss up re Daly or Joseph at 13.Hartley in last chance saloon only reason to keep him is leadership but clearly that was missing yesterday.Wood too limited so Haskell and Maro at 7 and 6.
Eddie must make changes for sure.Ford has been brittle for some time re his club future
Are you really suggesting Youngs out of the 23 after the autumn he had? Based on one game?
He was poor but knee jerk decisions like that won’t help the team.
I didn’t think Youngs was as good in the autumn as the press seemed to think. Watching him for Leicester his passing has been unreliable and he still tends to run sideways two or three steps before passing. England’s backs look more dangerous with Care providing quick ball, and Robson, Simpson and Chudley all provide better service. Youngs is decent but will never be world class, so why not have a look at other options?
I just think Youngs needs a kick up the arse, and Robson has been the in form 9 in the Prem all season. Unfortunately Eddie seems a bit blinkered when it comes to the 9/10 axis. Neither Youngs or Ford have been in good form for their clubs, and it has now transferred to England it would seem.
Thought the experiment with Itoje failed and Hughes just doesn’t seem to carry his size, hasn’t all season IMO.
Credit to France, thought they were good and made it difficult but that isn’t the reason england looked fractured and dysfunctional. A lot of injuries forced changes but the replacements were not up to it. Haskell should start and Itoje must go back to lock, Nowell in for Daley with real consideration given to scrum half and hooker
As a neutral, I thought the ref had a pretty poor game. I think the sinbinning was fair, but I thought he was very inconsistent about things like holding on/lying offside/etc, and I thought France in particular got unfairly penalised at a number of occasions.
I should point out I don’t think there was a bias, I thought Gardner had a poor game overall, France were just unlucky to have the slightly worse decisions.
Apart from the one when he called the ball out of the, promptly penalised Wood for falling on it and then made up some rubbish about it “still emerging” from the ruck. That was one of the worst bits of reffing I’ve seen for a while.
LOL! Must have been writing at the same time, great minds!
The worst decision calling the ball out then penalising Woods for playing it!!!! Then coming out with some rubbish about having to let the ball come fully out, WTF?? Then don’t call it out stupid!
That was an awful, awful decision, and was made worse by Hartley (I think?) rightfully questioning what happened, and Gardener completely contradicting himself with every sentence. There was just weird decisions all round. There was several kicks that were almost charged down, but audibly hit the players hand, and yet the throw was awarded against the kicking team.
Really glad that the people deciding on man of the match chose Picamoles and we didnt end up with a farcical decision like when launchbury was awarded it from a twitter poll. Picamoles was absolvely amazing all game and was running rings around the England backrow. A much better player for moving to a more structured environment in England. I wonder if we will see more players moving across the channel like him and Mermoz
I agree Picamoles was outstanding and I would love him to be playing for England. Imagine him and Billy V in the same team. He did not deserve to be on the losing side.
Was anyone else perplexed at why the French tight head didn’t get binned for not driving straight at the scrum?
Every time they cut to the overhead he was coming in at Marler at an angle yet the ref and the Line judge didn’t seem to see it most of the time.
as for the game it was awful but was I alone in thinking that England wouldn’t loose, there is certain confidence in the players that the heads don’t drop.
I think Nowell needs to start the next game over Daly, Haskell needs to start at 6 and Maro needs to move to the second row alongside Launchbury.
I think the comments about Nathan Hughes are unfair, as he has a significant amount of caps less than Billy who yes, we did miss but Hughes needs time to grow into the role too.
Yep hughes did ok he was a lone ball carrier which made us a bit too predictable and allowed the French to line him up all the time. Didnt make a massive amount of yards but drew multiple defenders each time. People are comparing to billy but not taking into consideration the impact of the other missing ball carriers like maro and robshaw sharing the burden. Bring back Haskell and get sinkler and george carrying some and he will start to shine more
At the risk of being called arrogant, yes I completely agree. I never really considered the possibility of France winning. The England players’ body language spoke volumes. There is a tangible confidence that comes with winning regularly. You see it with New Zealand, where they never look flustered if they go behind. This England team are starting to develop that winning habit and the self-belief that goes with it is what gives teams the ability to “win ugly”. Getting through games like this tells you more about a side than putting oppositions to the sword.
I thought the ref and assistants missed far too much too, just watch the ruck on 32min45sec – quite a cheap shot by the French no 10 Lopez – blatant stamp on Hartley went unpunished & haven’t heard that the citing commission are picking it up. Poor decisions compounded Englands lacklustre start.
England V poor France unlucky and a very strange exit plan from kick offs. England very fortunate to still be in the game after forty minutes