Rate the match between England and Italy at Twickenham in the Six Nations, and leave your thoughts on the game in the comments section below.
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Rate the match: England vs Italy, Six Nations 2015
Rate the match between England and Italy at Twickenham in the Six Nations, and leave your thoughts on the game
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30 replies on “Rate the match: England vs Italy, Six Nations 2015”
The number of articles I’ve seen and people I’ve heard discussing whether Joseph and Tuilagi can play together is sky high. But I’m about to make a revolutionary statement. England do not need Tuilagi. Twelvetrees-Joseph, Burrell-Joseph, Twelvetrees-Burell Eastmond-Joseph all excellent centre pairings. We can’t be so reliant on such an inconsistent, injury prone player.
On another note, May, for my money isn’t international standard, despite *that* try vs New Zealand. Nowell, Yarde, Wade all better options to my mind.
Conor
Totally agree re May and other wingers you mention.I still think SL has too many blind stops re selection.I think Manu needs to earn selection not be automatic-another of SL’s misjudgements.
Today was good in parts but would not worry the SH.
Hi Conor, bang on about Manu. To drop either Burrell or JJ would be just plain insulting. At this level of sport you should have to work your whatsits off to gain a spot,not just stroll back in based on what you might do.
May cannot defend. He is not powerful enough to shunt the runner over the line and his timing is poor. A pity ,as he is electric as a strike runner. I really wish Lancaster and banahan would settle their differences. Banahan may not be as dynamic but he can finish and stop an opponent dead.
might be good to give Nowell another crack at it. He’s not big but he’s quick and feisty.
I agree with Conor here May suffers from cutting inside syndrome, toward the end of the game when the Italian try line was begging for an outside pass he cut inside, was tackled and the momentum stopped, I would like to see Wade in the side even if its off the bench can you imagine his speed in the last 20 against a tiring team?
Tui needs to be in the team for the same reasons for Wade, Burrell and JJ are doing everything right so far so it wouldn’t make sense to ruin a partnership in an area we have struggled with recently.
Even though it was an impressive scoreline in the end I would love to see us just get the basics right, carry the ball into contact rather than look for a suicide pass and turn the ball over, we also need better cover at fullback as Italy really looked like they would exploit that position at times, a better side would punish us.
England have got to stop this “first fifteen minutes” syndrome. Dropping off tackles,tentative,going behind. If they cannot come out firing from minute one somebody ( Ireland perhaps) will get a stranglehold on the game that England won’t be able to escape.
It all came good in the end today,as it did V Wales but there is a pattern developing here which needs eradicating.
JJ was superb again. May needs to learn how to defend, Big Billy has to become an 80 minute player. He was excellent second half but that is not enough.
Was Attwood injured? I hope not as we don’t have another lock with his sheer power.
Still a win is a win and in parts they were very good today.
On to the Aviva!
TeeCee is bang on with ‘first fifteen minutes’ syndrome. Needs sorting.
Conor, I agree. Tuilangi is not a necessity. JJ is showing exactly why not.
I wouldn’t want to bank on 36 given his inconsistency all over the shop, but I thought he was bang on today. If only he played like that every time he was on the field….
Thought Ford seemed to stand deeper more often than not today, and did less of his Bath style ball to the line play – don’t know if that was game plan or because he was nervous about charge downs – but he was definitely less influential in attack.
Poor Brown – hope the guy is alright to come back in against Ireland – but thought Watson looked comfortable in his club position.
I’ve been a desperate advocate of May for as long as possible, and while he didn’t do anything particularly wrong defensively (mostly), he butchered two overlaps by trying to do trick the defense with his feet when a scoring overlap was outside him.
Overall, considering I don’t think we played all that well, six tries ain’t bad. If Brown isn’t fit for Ireland, I’d like to see Nowell come in on the right rather than a centre partnership shift because he makes metres and is solid as hell in defense. More likely to see 36 in and JJ to wing I expect though…
Mixed feelings on game. Thought some of our play was very good and pleased to see Cips and Easter score but conceding 3 tries was worrying. Thought May was at fault for 2 tries and may be the one to lose out next week.
Thought BV carried better than has for a long time and Watson along with Joseph played well.
I thought Italy played the best I’ve seen in a long time. And still got pummelled. England didn’t dominate time of possession or territory, yet took sharp chances (and bungled a few too, annoyingly).
Pluses. Marler just continues to grow. Did you see the number of times he won the collision and tackled players back? He isn’t giving away dumb penalties, and he carries strongly. Kruis is showing he has what it takes. He’s big, aggressive, athletic and again, doesn’t give away silly penalties. Burrell continued to impress me, this time defensively. Watson is looking like he could be a long term answer at wing. JJ looked sharp every single time he got it. I don’t think anyone got a square hit on him all game. very nice game. Even his grubber was well judged.
Minuses. Ford wasn’t influential. He didn’t control the game. a few cameos of real class were enough. When 12trees came on he seemed to do a lot of the 1st reciever stuff, so Ford was in and out. Youngs wasn’t as sharp, and May… Did some good things, but blew a gilt edged chance and gave a try where he shouldn’t. He has to be on thin ice.
… oh, and Lawes and Launchbury, let alone Parling, can’t be assured of their place back in the team. Attwood is really showing he has what it takes. Same goes for Wood over Haskell.
I agree here, don’t think anyone,bar maybe May, is making it easy for SL to take them out of the team. What a squad SL will have to choose from though when Launch,Corbs,Lawes etc are fit. The only one I’m not sure will be a positive though is Wood, very good player but much prefer the back row balance with Haskell In there instead. I hope SL sticks with the extra carrier in there from now on.
England worthy for their win. Good performances by individuals. Still not functioning collective as a team. Ireland and France will not be overly concerned on this showing. Italy showed weakness by scoring three good tries. However worst performance has to be the TMO in awarding clearly what was not a try. All missed V foot in touch and no clear evidence of the ball being grounded under comtrol
Big Dai,
We’ve seen these sort of decisions b 4 at Twickenham and doubtless we will see them again …..espec in England’s favour during RWC 2015.
Big Dai, I agree that there is still work to be done. But disagree both re the foot in touch and the grounding. Get on iplayer, it is fairly clear on both. If there is a question it is whether V was in control of the ball. On this point I choose to believe he was.
Another Dai, that is grossly one eyed. I am not claiming all decisions at Twickers are correct, but there are dodgy decisions at all stadiums, including Cardiff. The officials, including the 4th official, are all “impartial”, in that they are not English. Same as at all internationals. Are you claiming that there is a program of indoctrination that takes effect on top class professional officials between the car park and the video booth? If so, then I think we deserve the favourable decisions for our ingenuity.
After the France Ireland game, I’m not sure that England should be overly concerned either. It seems to me that England are showing more invention in attack than anyone so far. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I’ll take what SL and England have given us so far.
For all the comments about England not need Tuilagi above, I thought the game against Italy was screaming for him. England has really good carries from the pack, Vunipola and Haskell in particular, and wingers looked sharp with ball in hand.
What England seemed to lack was someone to straighten the line and attack the gainline from cetnre. Burrell was anonymous for me and I’d drop him (12T and Joseph for Ire).
England struggled because they lacked options through the centre. They either carried with a forward, or the ball was shipped immediately to a winger which became predictable – meaning we lacked cohesion and the ability to play many phases.
Luckily some brilliant individual performances and another top pack performance led to plenty of tries.
Defense was poor but I think that was down to England focusing on attack than a genuine problem, should be back to normal high intensity self for Ireland I hope.
As with outher, I completely agree about Manu. He is a huge asset for England, but needs to show he deserves his place.
You forgot Roko to replace May. He was back for Bath and looked pretty solid. He also would have put Morisi into the stands not allowed him to score.
Think Nowell is most likely to come in.
Personally, I think May easily has the power to have made that tackle, but lacked the commitment (see Halfpenny on Burrell a year ago).
Don’t understand the obsession with 12T’s, he is an average player at best, certainly not an international player. Agree with the comments re May, does not seem to have learned any lessons-from previous defensive errors
For people wondering about who could replace May, I noticed nobody has mentioned Ashton!? In great form for Sarries, and I know people are going to say he can’t tackle etc, but if you believe that then you should watch this tackle on Burgess yesterday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAIfMIARMDc
Ashton has always made those sort of hits – I remember one from the SA tour in 2012 that stands out in memory. His defensive issues are similar to Wade’s – his positioning is dreadful. He then misses tackles because he is that half yard out of position that means he ends up flapping and stretching at tackles. Cuthbert is worse mind you and he somehow went on a Lions tour (and Ashton offers some intelligence in attack).
I don’t think Ashton should be dismissed but if May was to be dropped I’d bring Nowell in.
Saying that, not sure why May is calling to be dropped. His paced caused problems again and again for Italy on Saturday. Once or twice he could have backed himself on the outside more but he did a lot of the time. That tackle at the end was dreadful, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt as he’s usually solid defensively.
If I’m honest I don’t think May should be dropped. I think one thing a lot of these wingers could learn from Ashton, which we haven’t seen many of them do, is get on the shoulder of other players, anticipating the offload. Ashton is still some way ahead in that respect of some of the younger guys. He has scored so many of his tries from just following and tracking the ball carriers.
To be fair to May, he didn’t really get much ball to do anything with. Nice set-up for Cips’ try!
Simon Scantlebury
Agree by & large, altho is May really that much better/worse than the others? The missed tackle last up v Wales is a potential concern as it was a fundamental error. However, is this indicative of a lack of SL’s coaching? Billy did the same v SA… & Attwood butchered that try! Are these out of comfort zone errors a possible team malaise that Lancs needs to address? Some forethought required, or is it, in part, a case of shooting the messenger/s? Also Strets & Ashton are/were the P’ship’s leading try scorers… Sarries being in the upper echelons notwithstanding. Still gotta score them. Food 4 thought?
Teecee
What of Wade & Varndell? With quick ball being the key, are there 2 better finishers? No pt in having fast wide men to run in treacle, but if this kicking is God mantra prevails, may as well put bulldozers out there. Like Tui for instance… Oops, 4got Lancs tried this long planned, 1 off experiment (?) already. Didn’t work a treat as I recall… altho I have nuthin’ agin Banahan myself. Doin’ ok 4 Bath. But then they have a superior all court game it seems.
I was thinking more about the defensive side of things to be honest Don. Varndell is a hell of a finisher but I’m not sure he would be anymore secure in defence than May. His past indiscretions have gone against him too unfortunately.
Wade could be the answer,only one way to find out but I can’t see SL picking him from the off.More of an impact player.
What we don’t want is for JJ to be lumbered with a wing role. He belongs fairly and squarely in the middle. I agree that MT is no international winger either.
It’s a puzzle! Over to you SL.
Stu
Agree… & YOU are getting to the point of this article. 7/10? Always find this somewhat OF A subjective thing.
McMurphy
I guess this means that Attwood is no longer 4th in the pecking order then?
Aslo, Ford is being written up too much. He hasn’t done anything that wrong, but he’s just out of the blocks & has some way to go as a world beater just yet. He’s been competent so far, that’s all. He’s done his job without tearing up any trees. The expectation & hype can’t do him, a modest sounding guy 4 me, any favours.
Same for Joseph. He wasn’t even in the team but for injury! This press talk of comparisons with Guscott are surely plain daft… after a couple of matches, in a winning side.
I think the papers are making the comparison in style of play not status as a player. JJ is a bit of a throwback in that he relies on speed,aglity and timing rather than 17 stones of muscle.
In that sense he is very much a Guscott type player and coincidentally has been the standout player both in this years Premiership and the 6N thus far. Maybe the day of the behemoth is coming to an end?
I’m sure that JJ would be the first to play down any serious suggestion that he is in the same class as Guscott……….yet. Given time and with good fortune with regard to injuries he may become the nearest thing the modern game has to the great JG.
The way Attwood has played – it would be unjustifyable to drop him for a freshly fit player without game form. It’s a luxury England have at a number of positions. Lawes and Launchbury are, I believe, probably one of the top 2/3 lock combos in the world – the SA and AB locks probably shade them. But availability is an attribute, and while I could … just about … see Lawes bumping Kruis, there would be no justification for anyone bumping Attwood until he gets injured, loses form, or the replacement is playing out of his skin.
Ford got too much credit for the Welsh game, but he has moments of high quality game reading and vision that the England team want. He’s promising, but not the finished article yet. In all honesty, I see this team as threats for the 2019 RWC, rather than this one, necessarily.
Teecee
Read a ST article recently by Ford Snr of Bath whereby he said that he now regretted effectively having got rid of Sinbad from Johnson’s England team… for the very concern you state. In retrospect, he said he should have 1st considered what Simspon-Daniel could do, then improved his game by getting the ‘D’ coaches to specifically work on his technique & positioning in this part of his game.
IMO S-D was, along with Garvey, also @ Glous, the most gifted l & r stepper in the Br game in yrs. England did what they trad do though; i.e., looked @ what he ‘couldn’t’ do & chucked him. J. Robinson was also small (so ‘D’ not nec his forte), but surely no one would now say that he shouldn’t have played in that WC final.
This (uneven) ‘D’ belief, again IMO, is a weakness, particularly in the English mindset (thinking of Shane Williams here). Need to look @ the pros & cons. If the former sufficiently outweigh the latter, then fix the cons. There seems to be an over emphasis on ‘D’ 1st & last.
Basically, as I’ve said before, when a team’s got the pill they should 1st look to score a try. If they haven’t, then stop the oppo from doing so.
Every team needs FINISHERS. Varndell & Wade fit this bill better than most methinks… so WORK on their ‘D’, J. May may agree (no pun etc), otherwise you risk having jacks, not masters.
Agree; ‘JJ belongs fairly and squarely in the middle’.
I think you’re mixing up small players and players that can not defend. Robinson was extremely good defensively, as was Williams.
Whilst defense should not be valued as highly as finishing ability, every player will have their negatives and positives weighed up by every coach – inevitably.
As an example, Varndell’s finishing ability is good, but his defense is so bad that at the top level the negatives would out-weight the positives. Wade on the other hand, offers so much more with ball in hand he is seriously considered.
Unfortunately for him, Watson has brilliant feet/finishing ability plus a defensive game and is brilliant under a high ball.
Jacob
It’s not a ? of mixing players up. And Robinson was in a mainly winning England team, so less need to defend. Williams could be bumped off & was a few times as I recall, but I’m mainly talking size in respect of defence, or perceived physical tackling ability (altho positioning is also of paramount importance), as this seems to legislate against smaller players. Wade is relatively untested in ‘D’ & I believe his stature is why Lancs won’t pick him. As I stated in respect of S-D tho, Ford stated that he, in effect, got it wrong. Players with ability can be coached or drilled till they get it right & the back 3 should cover each other, although you can’t coach a guy to have heart. That’s an internal thing.
Defence likely should be valued as important (as attacking ability), when a team doesn’t have the ball! Concede 7 a couple of times & see how important it is then.