Rate the match: England vs Wales, Six Nations 2016

I’m not going to crow, but it must be infuriating for the Welsh to have watched the last ten.minutes after the first 70.
Couple of points, Francis should have seen a greater punishment for an obvious gouge. And secondly wow what a player Itoje could become.

who ever gave that match a 10 is an idiot !, lets be honest ffs , , obviously english fans ,… it was a bit nail bitin’ for the last 20 mins but if you were a Welshman you would know it was a wasted chance and very frustrating , i’m not denying that the best team won , but the best team could not wait for the final whistle,…… in one way im happpy with the result cos a slim win v such a “small country”{Eddies words} is nowt to be proud of ,just ask Eddie ! we can only expect a thrashing from England at the Principality next year now {NOT}, ,Wales just left it too late to start playin’ as we so often do , the england side we played today i would put a weeks wages on loosin at Cardiff next year , no worries , makes you think how much home adv means !………and how/why ?,….dont get me wrong , England were deserverved winners , they usually choke at this point in the 6n so now they MAY finally win a GS , maybe , only the second half was worth more than 7/8 when there was a real contest , good game though ……….8

Silly bitter Welshman were is your etiquette in defeat ? No worries though the way things are looking for Wales I’m sure you’ll get plenty of opportunities to work on it.

First sentence fair enough. Second sentence where is your etiquette in winning?

etiquatte!?, its a fu**in rugby match not a banquete in twickers car park ffs , boots open old boy ehh ? jeeez , ..if you mean honour in defeat it would be closer , i have said the best team won , end of , just dont think you will win in cardiff next time,.. due to our late surge when we sussed you out old chap , , see you in car park C 4 And we’ll have champers and a prawn sarnie ,……NOT , etiquatte ain’t a valley tradition , lucky if we f**kin eat half the time , just a small ignored country that you may own a home in, that is used 4 weeks of the year ? now is that etiquatte ? ,…….hmmmmm? ,……..we call it posh bas***ds, etiquatte my left leg , THIS IS RUGBY , ………you ever read Phill Bennett’s team talk before a game v Eng ? , i would say “sticks n’ stones but i’m too old for that ,……..etiquette ? hahahahahahahahahahaha, nice one old chap , get a grip !, you won, as i said ,well done , aint over till the cock crows !

This is the worst attitude and comment I’ve ever seen on this blog. Save your incoherent babble for the soccer page
England beat us fair and square.
You’re embarrassing the rest of us

Congratulations to England – I didn’t honestly even think they could play so well. OK it wasn’t great, but they unearthed a really fine new player in Itoje, and showed that they are back in the real world of rugby. From a Wales fan’s point of view, I naturally regret the refereeing error that denied Wales their late try, but that is the way it goes. Thank God our bragging rights will still go on until 2019!!

What a load of crap! Thought you Aussies were more straight talking. That’s just called whinging Aussies!
Wales were beaten fair and square. Yes Wales came back into it (we were wondering when they would!) but England had already laid the foundations of an indefatigable win! That Wales decided not to play for the first 65 mins is hardly their fault.
Principality next season can’t wait. One things guaranteed. England will play for the first sixty.

Wales did leave it too late to start playing, because they waited until we had someone in the sin bin!! Very poor first half for Wales, and the Biggar try aside, which came from an England players mistake, they were well out of it. Cole gets binned, we have to reshuffle our pack, and they suddenly think they have a chance. Obviously not enough self belief to think they could win when we had fifteen men on the pitch!?

btw , where was the impact from BV ?, very average as i knew he would be , v a small country , cant wait for scott williams to break the english line again along with the ball , in other words , this defeat was just a blip in the greater long term scheme of gatland , tho i do find his selections wierd he has a mass of Wesh talent at his disposal, take a lookat the “little country’s recent U20s result !………..na na na na nahhhhh! lol

You must have watched a different match to me. Thought Billy made yards everytime he had the ball. Not as much as previous matches but he was certainly not shut out.

Your right, I think he made one yard every single time

According to ESPN Billy Vunipola had 18 runs and 45 metres, average of 2.5 metres

For me this match had something for both sets of fans to shout about and must have been a good spectacle for the neutral so I gave it a 10, sue me. However I didn’t rate it 10 because I am so over thr moon by that England performance, once again we almost let another winning position slip against Wales, we really should have buried Wales and Eddie cant be happy with that second half. I know the lynch mobs will be put for Ford, but once again it was Youngs abject passing that got us into trouble. Surely he will be dropped.
That said all I can say is also well done to Wales, as an England fan it is frightening to think what would happen if they played with ambition from the start. How big a lead do we need against Wales to be comfortable?

Credit to Wales they pushed us the whole way by then, but I think there are huge positives to take for england. In regards to be he was undeniably well marked today and wasn’t able to smash the welsh apart. But I thought other member of the pack really stood up showing the dept of talent england are starting to bring through.

All this Welsh up roar about Eddie Jones commenting about Wales being “a small country”. 3 things. 1. It has been wildly taken out of context, he was actually complimenting the Welsh on being able to consistently produce quality sides from such a small player base. Watch the entire interview. 2. Wales IS a small country, it’s a fact, not an insult, and 3. Until Eddie Jones made those comments it was Wales fans’ chief ribbing of England, that they could still beat England with such a small player base. So drop the hypocrisy for the love of sanity, because until recently Wales fans echoed Eddie Jones’ sentiments.

Cmon guys. The Welsh need to admit that for 50 minutes England were superb, controlled the game, starved Wales of the ball and forced them into penalties.
Likewise England should admire the comeback by Wales. There was a little luck involved, for sure, but they did play with some ambition (and bypassed Jamie Roberts who again was awful in attack.) These are the two best teams out there this season and both proved enough that there is quality to compete with SH teams. The difference is which team has a coach that will develop that side of the team. Anyone else think the last 10 mind was in spite of Gatland not because?

At no point in that game were England superb, a very good 8/10 at best. Couple of try’s that went begging which a superb performance would have led to a 30 point lead at half time. 8/10 is of course plenty when you opponents are playing at 1/10.

Egg Chaser – most sound comment of the night

“All this Welsh up roar about Eddie Jones commenting about Wales being “a small country”.”

Hey, *some* Welsh people got annoyed by it. There was no general “welsh uproar”. A minority do not speak for the entire country.

As a proud welshman I totally agree that we are a small country.We have always punched above our weight in most sports.Not many true welshmen would quarrel with that.The average welshman is approx 5ft.7ins,so obviously find it more difficult to compete where size matters.That is why we developed skill to avoid brute force.I am of an age that remembers forwards being 6 ft and 14 stone backs were 5ft 8 and about 11 stone.Today they are all huge men,hence less players come through our clubs.Just think sometimes people utter words first and then get their brain to catch up.

Mate, there was a fair amount of uproar, which was shamelessly embellished by the media. One could argue the same for England; we are universally regarded as an arrogant nation (at least when it comes to sport) because of the ravings of *some* English people. The irony is I’ve just made myself a hypocrite!

Billy*

Falteau is Billy’s cousin did you know that and a much better player , England nearly lost lol bring a kiwi is great .

Fully agree – being a kiwi is great because even when you lose, which granted is not very often, it’s always someone else’s fault – food poisoning, sickness, ref, ball, global conspiracy, etc. And being a kiwi implies a well grounded and incisive knowledge of the game. Hmm given your comments – are you sure you’re a kiwi?

Eddie said he needed to try players but the changes didn’t work.SCW said the same + we were down to 14 in last 10.First 60 were the best 60 we’ve played for a long time so very satisfactory progress in my book.Contrast with Stu so so stark.Players had no chance.Funny he’s still clutching his p 45!

Obviously pleased as an England fan but rather flat after the last ten minutes. I have said before that Gatlands game plan holds back the Welsh backs who are potentially the best in the world. Once again as soon as they started playing heads up rugby they were unstoppable.

Best in the world. Lolz

Dan you have retired from international rugby now so your oppinion no longer counts

Well I will leave Cuthbert out of the discussion on current form, but otherwise and with the players that they have to come back from injury, I think that they compare to the best out there at the moment, but as stated are held back by the Gatland game plan which is built not to lose.

Good game to watch, one thing I’m not sure about – when coles attempt was disallowed in the first half, I’m pretty sure Marler landed a punch on Gareth Davies’ (I think) face.

They only played the clip long enough to see it from 1 angle I think, but I thought it looked quite definitive (I only watched it live though) anyone have any thoughts?

I thought it was going to be a cricket score at the end of the first half, Itoje is a hell of a player!

I saw that. Don’t think there was anything in it. Marler was just driving with his arm used as momentum. I don’t think it’s especially wise to have your fist clenched while doing so, but I’m satisfied there was no intention to punch the bloke on the floor.

Seems he’s been cited for striking, interesting to see if that’s what it was for:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35802422

I thought the citing officer had already said no case for Marler to answer for the elbow? What’s made him change his mind?

Anyway – I think it’s unsightly that the racism seems to be being dealt with last. Have to look firm and decisive on things like that. They should announce all citings in one go, not drip feed them.

Talking of only one angle should have been 14 vs 14 at the end. Sure there was only one angle of Francis’ gouge on Cole but the angle they had showed the incident as clear as day. Clawed hand dragged across the eyes = red card (yellow at the minimum)

Absolutely Leon. Even Jiffy ‘It’s on’ Davies said it looked bad. And was shot down pretty well by Jerry ‘I’d ruin the atmosphere at a kiddies party’ Guscott when he tried to claim in mitigation that he had his eyes closed.
And I thought Joubert had a pretty good game all told, just let down by his TMO on a couple of occasions.

As a rugby supporter I would ban Francis for a minimum of 20 weeks.It did look like a fist driven into the face if proven again a lengthy ban.It matters not whether Welsh or English or any other nationality that sort of foul play should be dealt with severely.As for the derogatory comments again a lengthy ban.No room for it after all both sides had players of different ethnesticity.Black,White or any colour or backround deserve respect.

Ken, great comment – deliberate hand in the face should be severely punished, stupid racist comments the same. An opportunity for the standards of rugby to be reinforced & keep us away from the football mentality.
Oh and North was in touch with his other foot that has not been focussed on – the white line is broken so just let the Ref get on with it please & enjoy a great game.
Brighty – keep up the good work (I must be inebriated saying this haha)

North was not in touch. We don’t get many facts in rugby, mostly opinions, so when facts are available we may as well respect them. By recognising this and recognising that England still deserved to win the game we can close off any nonsense.

It doesn’t change the result, it doesn’t mean Wales would have scored, England won fair and square, and it was an ok call by the officials given the marginality of the call in real time…. but no point arguing with the facts Col. The idea that you’re the only one who’s even thought of looking at his other foot is hilarious.

I suppose the line just disappeared all my itself & it wasn’t North’s foot, try looking at the footage again instead of looking at the foot that didn’t touch the line. Yes it was marginal but non of the footage shown afterwards looked from the try line which would have shown the contact clearly. Whether he had already passed the ball I have no idea so can only go with the touch judge who gave it out.

“Whether he had already passed the ball I have no idea ”

And that is the whole point. Yes, he 100% ended up in touch. He passed the ball before he went into touch. I am also fine with the linesman calling it as it was so marginal and required a slo-mo camera review to spot it. I’m just mystified as to the need to argue about the simple fact.

Gareth Davies was offside for the Scotland try. New Zealand did a pansy football dive when Wales were about to beat them a few decades ago. Dooley never got properly sanctioned for his punches, etc. etc.

Decisions come and go, some for, some against. This wasn’t incompetence by anyone, it was just too marginal. I just think that when there is a clear fact it’s worth going with it rather than being incorrect because then the whole discussion turns into nonsense.

!!!

Congratulations to England for hanging on in there…….this time. Looked by far the better team …the only TEAM for 60 mins. Thought the Welsh had the better of the scrums tho Eddie….. Were only penalised twice when the English front hooker
stood up too …go figure refs eh?
I ‘ve had a couple of looks at the last attack and it looks as if North made the pass before going into touch, sorry if wrong but wow that would have been an amazing end Web was through the gap ….what the papers would have made of that one World Cup Nightmare Two!
As is England roll on. I agree with Gareth Thomas the 6 nations need a good England…good to see them back after so long in the wilderness.

Congratulations England, well deserved and should’ve been 40-21 final score. Good luck getting those shit stains out of your pants.

Thoroughly deserved win by England, have not seen such a placid, lethargic performance in that first hour by Wales for a long time, I know they are notorious slow starters but that was just taking the Mick !!. England just seemed to want it more and were better in just about every aspect of the game, had two very close calls on the try line gone the other way it could have been completely out of sight by half time.
Only a moment of brilliance by Biggar sparked Wales into life, I was gutted by the inept performance by so many players, just inexplicable ??.
Osiboy you are not doing yourself or your fellow Welshmen any favours by whinging about the result or making inane remarks about next years game, just accept that we were beaten by the better side today, hopefully it can be rectified next year but I wouldn’t bank my house on it….

i have said england were deserved winners , and “end of” its only 1 game on 1 day tho , i’m just making the point that we have nothing to fear if we play like we did in the last 15 min , and i was right if you read my previous that BV Was quiete , i knew he would be , another never to have a good game v Wales is your other import tuilangi , has he ever ?, NO, Brown was good today but the guy is an idiot , so easy to wind up he will cost England BIG oneday , what more do you want me to say ?.,,,England are world beaters cos they beat Wales by 3 or 4 was it ? dont kno , good game and deserved end of , result was desrved , what more can i say ? @ twickers by a few points v {Eddies words]”such a small nation “, congrats , your fab ! super duper , another 15 and you would have lost ,but its only 80 mins right ? live and learn ehh ? and i’ll have to too .END.ps; so sorry , no eddiequatte !

I literally cannot follow what you are trying to say…..

I don’t agree that the momentum of the game had shifted in that way. I think Eddie would (or even did, I think) admit that he made too many changes in a very short period of time; with Cole’s sin-bin as well, that really disrupted the shape of the team. I reckon another 5 minutes and with a full complement of players back on the pitch, England would have regained their composure.

Jamie Roberts 10 passes v Owen Farrell 4 so I believe someone owes £6

was the bet accepted ? i had meters gained and tackles missed too ?,………SHIT ,…I’m rich !
my acc No is 33-3gs2013 , thanks , { bet i dont get it }

Its a fair cop happy to send you £6 (but that’s not a real account number)

Sorry Osiboy but this was not a wasted opportunity for Wales. Wales, for the majority of this game didn’t play because England’s tempo didn’t allow them to play. England’s tempo fell off then Wales began to play. It’s as straight forward as that. As Brighty said after England
Ireland ” England played better than they have for some time ” . Once again, England have played better than they have for some time. That’s two in a row. if England finish the job in Paris I think that they will have turned a distinctive corner.

sharpy, y do you think it was england tempo fallin off ? you dont think wales upt theirs ? , if rugby was 90 instead of 80 fitness would have told more and i believe wales would have won, but its not , so well done , you won fair n square , end of , today was your biggest test against the “littlest country”in the 6n so you must be very proud and happy , well done and congrats n’ stuff on beatin such little country ,….make you feel even bigger now ?, a few hundred thousand refugees and you will be would chaps again before you know it England will be telling the little country’s AGAIN how they should play to beat the S/H teams after failing to qualify for their own WC,…….what a difference a game makes ehh ?

Silly bitter Welshman.

A step inside by Ford and the flat Welsh line would have been exposed. Such are the margins between world class players measured.
Itoje was just astonishingly good. Strong, hungry for the ball and just match-intelligent beyond his expierence and years.
The balance of the team was totally upset by the unnecessary changes , front row changes aside, which by the nature of the unique demands of the position are almost obligatory, and seemed to be pre-planned. Very disappointing for a coach of Jones’s supposed intelligence.
Brown was back from the dead and buried though, and if only he had just ran straight for the corner.

As for the Welsh comeback? It was inevitable wasn’t it? The team has been too good for too long for them to do nothing for the full 80…

I don’t think the French have got it in them to produce an upset this year. Maybe not the capitulation of the World Cup, but a big loss us on the cards I think.

Wales nearly won the game they out scored England in tries your talking rubbish man be off with you lol .

thought England were very good 1st 50 mins, only Youngs and Ford let down a strong team performance. Brown had his best game of tournament, Watson was class under high ball and second row were great again – good to see Robshaw coming in as a line out option too.

Not really sure why Wales came back in, a bit of them getting themselves going and England dropping off the intensity I guess. A bit concerning to see how Tuilagi coming in at 12 disrupted what has been a fairly successful 2nd playmaker game plan, not sure how that will develop as he doesn’t have that skill set yet. Ford off instead of Farrell was interesting given EJ pre match comments too.

The last 10 mins makes it difficult for Wales as how do they assess it now – is it just bad luck and we didn’t get going or do they look at it and wonder whether a different approach may have borne fruit earlier?

As an England fan I have very mixed feelings about today. The one real positive was Itoje who looks to the manor born. I loved the line out steal after he gave away the penalty that gave Wales the throw,It said everything about his attitude,and abilty.

Are England getting better? How do you define better? Wales were shockingly bad in the first half yet we contrived to butcher two scoring opportunities and failed to put the game beyond their reach. Shades of the previous regime there.

Is the scrum developing? Sam Lee looked the best prop on display for my money. England are far from the dominant force they used to be. It’s better but only to the point that we aren’t being shunted all over as we were during the W Cup.

Substitutions.My God Eddie, what the hell were you thinking of? Such wholesale alterations almost cost us the game. Wales were on the up, we could’nt get our hands on the ball so making so many changes was just plain daft.Again,shades of Lancaster.

Finally and this is what concerns me most: If Wales had played the first 60 like they did the last 20 we would have been spanked. The ease with which they cut through our much vaunted wolf pack was embarrassing. They are still fitter,stronger and far more cohesive,when they put their minds to it. Thank god they forgot that for 60 minutes today.

I know I’m going to cop a shed load of negative comments but I can only call it as I see it.

Strewth at tge end of the day, England won because for 50 minutes they starved Wales of the ball. That’s pretty superb play as they made Wales look ordinary.
Wales came back as a class team should do, but I wonder who made the desicion. Sure wouldn’t have been Gatland, and defo wasn’t Warburton. So I reckon AWJ should take that credit for actually getting Wales to play like an attacking rugby team and try something different.

osiboy i think your in danger of letting a wee bit of prejudice cloud your judgement there or maybe its just alcohol.

got to say that first half by england was superb, best iv seen in a long, long time. Yes wales came back into it strongly but we know that they are a quality team, so well done england for hanging on in there.

for all the individual talent wales have this is a disappointing loss for them, not in it for 60, a charge down and a yellow made it squeaky bum time, george north, absolute quality and back to his best. itoje you beauty.

‘if wales played like they did in the last 20 then we would have been spanked’.

But the they didn’t.

So they lost.

What a load of b******s

I think you are missing the point somewhat. Thanks for the constructive debate btw. Perhaps you might like to look at the last 20 again and see just what a shambles we were. Very encouraging.

England were the better side.Wales for 60 minutes were poor.Game lost by then.Be honest and say Any of the three southern hemisphere sides would have trounced the both of them.With all the play England had it was a poor display to score only 1 try and concede 3.Honestly believe that rucking should be returned to rugby.Stop all the fat boys falling over the ball killing play.

Yes NZ/Aus/Sa would still be favourites against Wales or England.
But which team has shown improvement and is just starting on a cycle towards competing against SH teams. And which team is just doing what they’ve always done and is now standing still.
Wales have good players in the backs (well once Roberts retires 1/2p returns and cuthbert gets dropped) but they need a coach who’ll trust them. And Gatland don’t.

Ben youngs passing continues to be terrible, not sure how he knocked on the ball at the base of the ruck, or why he gave ford that terrible pass. Ford did ok during the 1st half but the 2nd half ford became erratic i have no idea what happened & it continued to get worst as the game went on.

Dan cole continued as england number 1 penalty machine he gave away 5 penalties should have brought brookes on earlier. Hartley should’ve stayed on & robshaw as well to hold everything together towards the end, not sure why Cowan dickie came on. Manu came on and well just showed we really did not need him, though things may have started to fall apart when manu came on, some confusion on who is leading the wolf pack defence? & he might’ve looked a bit lost.

I thought guy like Lauchberry needed to be brought in as Itoje and Kruis looked tired around the 60th mark. Billy V also looked tired towards the end josh beaumont would’ve been useful had he been on the bench

The trouble is, Danny Carr’s box kicking is awful too. Once again came on and put a kick 10 metres too long allowing a Welsh counter attack. We could really do with a scrum half who can do everything. Then Youngs might get dropped. However he did do quite a bit of good work too.

Care’s kicking was awful, and more costly than Youngs’ passing too if you ask me. He’s started taking a step back when box kicking which tends to produce a fairly long, but also very flat trajectory. It’s a good technique if you are under pressure in your own 22 with the option of kicking straight to touch as the step back reduces the likelihood of a charge down and you can bite off a lot of territory. The downside is it is nigh on incontestable and thus useless for tactical kicking. Every time Care kicked it away, Williams, North, Faletau et al usually fielding the kicks always had 10-15m of broken field to run into and gain quick, cheap momentum. Youngs going off was a big turning point for Wales.

Re Dr Boo; I disagree with you on Manu. His first contribution after 15 months out was a 5m pick and go straight through Lydiate’s fringe defence that ultimately pinned a Wales player (Charteris, I think) on the wrong side for a 3 pointer. Talk about impact.

Yes. Couple of other similar interventions also, and that tackle on North at the end, (seems to be a bit of debate as to whether North was actually in touch when he got the pass away; he was in touch). Manu wasn’t awesome, but I think he made a net positive contribution.

Stroudos – it doesn’t change the result at all but North wasn’t in touch, cameras prove it. Now it doesn’t matter – them’s the breaks in rugby/sport and only a slo-mo replay showed he wasn’t in touch so can’t be harsh on the officials. But it’s just better to admit the facts and then point out that England won anyway, we were a very long shot to score even if North hadn’t been called out, decisions go all ways during matches, etc. So to be clear I’m just calling out a point of fact here – the decision itself was fine, under the circumstances, by me and the match won fair and square.

(I do remember that never ending analysis of Cueto’s foot in that world cup game, don’t ever want to sit through that again). I reckon if you’re so close to touch that it takes a slo mo zoomed in replay to decide whether you were in or out then calling it in touch would seem like a fine thing to me if it is consistently applied.

Reasons England deserved to win:
Itoje – superb. I dare anyone on here of whatever national persuasion to say otherwise without looking a foolish. Deserved MOTM performance.
Farrell – superb. No falling off tackles as hoped for by some and kicked everything asked of him.
Cole and Marler both superb. Cole’s recent poor form and ill-discipline a thing of the past.
Haskell – again good. Has hit a rich streak of form for the first time ever (previous management can’t have agreed with him or something)
Back three – excellent (except for some butchered tries: namely Brown in first 5 mins and possibly others I can’t remember….someone?
BV played well. Still made yardage (I’d like to see the stats) but well marshalled by the Welsh though to the detriment of space created elsewhere.

Who was it with the fingers all over Coles eyes? Thought Joubert bottled want should have been a yellow if not a red card

Tomas Francis, and for me it was a red card.

Also frustrated by the number of penalties conceded by Wales with no warnings or yellows against England’s.

It sort of looked like Francis tried to tweak Cole’s nose! Either way definitely got a finger in or on his eye and the hand was deliberately in his face at least. I think the phrasing of the law is simply something around contact with the eye area isn’t it? So all that “inconclusive evidence” may not be entirely accurate.

Well played England. Out thought and out muscled us for the important part of the game. Nice to see some handling and purple patch from us late on but too little and too late. Can’t turn up and just play in the last 10 – England defence was too aggressive for us to not try and spin it earlier. Better team won, fair and square.

As a welsh fan I have to hope some pennies will have dropped watching that last ten and also our u20s on Friday – yep, I’m scratching around here for positives to take, don’t take it as not accepting the beating – I accept it. Well done England. I’m just a Welsh fan trying to find some positives but I guess that is for tomorrow really. Enjoy a well earned win England fans.

Brighty, possibly the most gracious post I’ve seen on this blog, I’m not sure I could be so big in the circumstances .

I think there are lots of positives for Wales, but I still don’t get why Gats seems to not want to take the restraints off. Last 15 mins was frightening from Wales. We should be seeing it more often.!

Brighty – positives – you have a team that can beat anyone as shown by the last ten minutes. Personally think that it was one of those days. Not convinced the same result would come from a replay next week.

Brighty – Hats off! Honesty where it was due!
Welsh backs had everyone worried for a bit!
Thought Itoje was outstanding. Well deserved MOTM performance!
Back three for England very good despite Brown butchering at least one certain try!
Farrell kicked everything and tackled well and the front three scrummaged brilliantly.

A wasted chance from England to put some serious points on Wales. Nowhere near the finished article yet but some good signs. Itoje superb, Youngs rubbish, Robshaw and Haskell completely outplayed Warburton and Lydiate.

Nice to see Wales cut loose but allowed to so by some silly subs.

Apparently it was Francis who had his fingers in Coles eyes. I hope he is cited and gets a goodly ban. Joubert should have red carded him. There’s no place for dirty play like that in the gameWho was it with the fingers all over Coles eyes? Thought Joubert bottled want should have been a yellow if not a red card

Apologies for repost of last sentence. Stupid phone

I was at the game. Thought from my view (behind the posts) that the Welsh scrum was going well in the first half but kept being penalised by Joubert !!!?? Why ??? Appreciate any views on this

Elliot, my take on it, although no expert in the dark arts, was that the scrum was quite even and both sides were trying tricks to get advantage. Probably England and the EJ pep talk just got on the right side of Joubert on the day.

Without doubt the best team on the day won. A few points to discuss one is Brown’s lack of ability to score, or give a scoring pass. Why oh why did he run straight at Bigger????? And a worry that when given and created the opportunity their failure to covert into a score. Did a real job on Curtbert. Thought Joubert ref the game as whole well apart from a strange descion where he gave a penalty for England despite Farrell interfering on the ground and out of play which took England to 19 – 0. Still don’t know where/why/how the game changed in the last twenty minutes, and it was the last twenty and not from Cole getting himself sent off. Again good game, right team won.

Wales were fitter simple in the last 20 but Wales are a top side but haven’t played well since 2013 only in patches but that is not good enough Wales looked tired to be honest and have in the whole of this tournament not only at Twickenham but they are still a dangerous team they nearly won the game .

Big Dia. Definitely last 20. Cole got yellow carded due to pressure England had been under and the repeat infringements. As stated above not convinced it would be the same winner next week or especially away at Cardiff. Really little between them imo. Think both can play better though, which is encouraging, but SH standards, particularly of mental consistency are still some way off – but not unachievable.

A team you all say beaten for 60 mins yet nearly win the game and recent footage shows George North was not in touch at the end of the game .
Do I think England have improved no I don’t Ireland are depleted and Wales haven’t looked the same side they were in 2013 they are playing in well in patches but it’s not Wales with there former flamboyant backs and there too good a side they’ll get back but they need new direction but talk about small countries look at NZ it is just mind games by Jones though I feel so so sad for Lancaster because he laid all the foundations and a Aussie is taking all the credit from Lancaster but the best team won though Wales will be back it’s only a game guys .

Have you ever heard of punctuation?

To add:

1) Wales were awful in the first half. Comments saying England nullified them are flattering England, aside from at line out. They were just dreadful. Did not seem to have a game plan and could not even string passes together.

2) Youngs is the better 9, despite regular grumbles about him. His kicking from hand yesterday was better than Ford’s, and he is quicker thinking than Care, which puts defences on back foot. His passing is indeed imperfect, but there we go.

3) Jury still out on Ford. Kicks ball away too often and seems a bit low on confidence. Cipriani still a viable alternative. Given the talent in outside backs, we are much better with a ball player at 10 ie. Please not Farrell.

Worst performance from a Welsh team at any ground since 2007. They looked totally disinterested and tired for most of the 1st 50 mins of the game.
AWJ is either carrying an injury or totally knackered due to some virus or other.
Scott Baldwin screwed up yet another golden chance in midfield for a 2nd away game this 6n.
Leaving Webb and Charteris out of the 1st 15 was a real error of judgment by Gatland in terms of selection
Tactically he is danger of ruining a decent crop of players with his one dimensional approach to the game. The U20s showed on Friday night how the game can be played but once Gats gets hold of them he’ll coach any craft or guile out of them asap.

Well deserved England win. Wales were poor for 60 minutes which, as previously commented, was in part due to England’s ability to starve them of the ball. I think Gareth Thomas made a very good point in the after match analysis though. He said that Wales only starting playing ‘heads up rugby and ignored their preset game plan because the situation of the game required it’ I.e. Being so far behind England on the points board that they had to go for it. My god how frustrating it would be to support Wales, why not play like that from the first bloody whistle then! Here is a some free advice Mr. Gatland… Route one bish bash bosh via messers Roberts, North & Co then box kick and set (repeat) doesn’t cut the mustard anymore! Pick the heads up, look what’s on, play a ball playing centre and utilise the space. You have world class players in your team so why not allow them to play some rugby? If their game plan doesn’t change over the next 12 months then I see this young and exciting England squad dominating the six nations for a good few years to come.

We’ve got work to do on our fitness to implement the EJ gameplan for 80 mins. Welsh comeback was a combination of taking the shackles off and having more left in the tank. Not a surprise, you don’t close a fitness deficit at elite level in 8 weeks.

Excellent collective performance from the pack. 6 pens against Cole (out of a team count of 12), I’m not convinced he’s the best option. Itoje …. even better than the hype! I was never much of a Kruis fan, thought we was in the Mauritz Botha mold of a committed grafter, but he’s been magnificent. Even back on form Launchers has his work cut out to win his place back (coming on and going straight off feet at a ruck doesn’t help either!)

Back 3 performed very well again overall, but why Brown didn’t back himself for the corner I have no idea. I see Watson as our longer term solution, allows him to get his hands on the ball more often as well.

9, 10, 12 I’m not sold on as a combination on current form. Youngs’ service is not consistent enough. Ford’s decision making and execution is not reliable. Faz has done well, but he’s kicking a lot of ball away from 12. Despite all the possession we had in first half JJ only touched the ball 4 times in the entire match.

I’d keep the same selections for next week though, possibly Brookes for Cole. I’d avoid drip feeding the subs on one at a time. Care for Youngs and Manu for Ford at the same time gives us the half back pairing from 2014 that had excellent balance and chemistry.

Reflecting on a couple of the nastier aspects of the match … Marler needs to learn the hard way and, as an Englishman, I hope he’s sitting out of next weeks game. Comments on peoples heritage have no place on a rugby field, the cheap forearm shot won’t help him either. He doesn’t deserve to represent his country again until he’s learned this lesson.

If Ashton had 10 weeks for contact with the eyes Francis should be >10 weeks. I don’t think he’s a malicious player but this wasn’t contact in the act of attempting something else.

It will be really interesting to see what happens with Marler. Is there any precedent for abuse like that and any subsequent bans in rugby?

Tomas Francis – pillock. Not only was it an awful thing to do to an oppo player but in terms of where and when it happened it was killer for his own team mates. He won’t play again this season I expect.

According to one news article I saw, the minimum ban for racial, ethnic, national or other similar slurs on the pitch is four weeks, though I don’t know how often/if ever it has been applied. Decent indictment of rugby, unlike football, that this happens so rarely that the sanctions, or past examples of their application, are not common knowledge!

What with the possible punch as well, Marler is looking at a six-week entry point for a ban, which may be reduced due to his relatively clean prior disciplinary record and how quickly he came forward to apologize (some reports saying he apologized directly to Lee as early as half-time) – regardless, I would imagine his 6N is over.

Of course all the England fans here conveniently ‘missed’ the facts that:-

1: George North was NOT in touch at the end of the game in England’s 22 and Rhys Webb had a the ball when the whistle went for an English lineout.
2: The ref refused to go to the TMO when North was convinced he scored an earlier try.
3: The ‘tries’ involving Brown and Cole were all extensively reviewed by the TMO where as for both 1+2 the officials gave no such leeway. In 1 above had Wales scored then it could have been reviewed after any subsequent score.
4: England got away with murder all game by running blockers and giving away repeated pens ‘in the red zone’. It was only when forced to did Joubert end up going to the pocket.

Utter rubbish. Accept the result. Look at the failings of your own team.

You also forgot the “fact” that if Eddie Jones had wheels he’d be a bike (apologies to the tv chef who’s name I can’t remember). There’s always some things up for debate after every game, but it doesn’t change the result. After replays, I don’t think North was in touch but it was given. If that had happened in the 9th minute rather than the 79th minute, you wouldn’t have commented. England edged it on the day at home – does it make them the better team – I’m not convinced. However we won. No amount of conveniently missed “facts” are going to change that.

Or in other news two England ‘tries’ that on another day, another TMO could have been given. A Welsh yellow or two when being penalised in their own 22, and a red card meaning the last ten.minutes could have been 14 a side.
In a game of ifs, buts and maybes the only certainty was that England scored more points than Wales.

Even if the ref hadn’t called North as in touch (I don’t think he was by the way) Itoje had Webb lined up and would have smashed him if the whistle hadn’t gone. To say that Wales would have scored from that point is quite a massive assumption

I’m getting worried Pablito. I appear to be agreeing with you a lot!

It’s a good habit to get into Jez

I’m sure normal service will resume.

@Staggy – FYI Gino d’Acampo. That phrase has been a popular expression in Italian and Spanish for decades though.

So George North was not in touch in last play..Wales score a try & win game .Also Eng throw in from subsequent line out massively not straight… England win because Joubert is refereeing i new before hand that would be the case …cymru am byth

Line out was fine (thank god it wasnt Tom Youngs) and as Jonathan Davies pointed out Itoje had webb and would have nailed him into touch. I might add that there was a clear fwd pass in the build up to North’s try. These things happen, sport is never perfect.

Get your self to spec savers , Joubert let himself down , Again

And Elliot grow the hell up.

Benjit

Not prasiing an EnZeder are you?

Fairly sure Cowan-Dickie hails from the west country, but not against praising kiwis when uts deserved!

I’m English, England won fairly and squarely this time. Great! Wales were poor in the first half and much better later on. There were a number of controversial decisions, and some nasty nationalistic outbursts. Cut ’em out!

In the sober light of day, whilst I would have loved Eng to put a big score on Wales, it would have been like NZ in 2012 all over again, with Eng seen as the finished article. A dowse of realism is probably not a bad thing.

I completely agree. Wales exposed some serious weaknesses in England’s maul defense, as well as scramble positioning with a man down (which, let’s be honest, happens with depressing regularity with this England team so they ought to be better prepared to play with 14 men), that might not otherwise have been quite so obvious.

For similar reasons, I would not be overly upset if we lost to France, provided the match similarly demonstrates areas for improvement or allows EJ to test out some new combinations. Such as up front – I’d say it’s likely Marler will be banned for four weeks plus so a good opportunity to see what Paul Hill can do. We have the title in the bag (phew) which provides some much needed banishing of demons and confidence in the coaching set-up – now is not the time for hubris or resting on laurels, but acknowledging there’s still a long way to go to challenge the SH teams or indeed Wales on any other day of the week, let alone at home.

Hill is a tighthead it will be Mako and probably Mullan

I may be wrong but I think Brookes can cover both sides of the scrum, so it could be Brookes and Hill on the bench with Mako starting?

I’d also like to see Tuilagi starting with JJ outside him and Daly or Watson at 15. Brown needs to be reminded he can be benched.

Not sure why you’d put Brookes on his unpreferred side with someone like Mullan available? He’s been fantastic for Wasps this season, and always performed well for England when needed. I think he’s so unlucky that Marler and Mako are infront of him.

I’m not doubting Mullan’s ability, but I just wonder if Eddie will stick someone in at this stage who hasn’t played in the competition at all yet when he has other options.

I take it your starting Farrell at 10?
I’ll be honest I thought Ford had a very good first 40. But, and here’s the problem with George, when the pressure came on he folded. And it’s happened before (the Premiership final being the most high profile example). I really think at the moment he needs to go back to club rugby and develop his game to work under pressure. This shouldn’t be too much of a loss for England as hopefully Henry Slade is back to fitness for the summer tour, an ideal bench player covering 10,12 and 13. And I do think Farrell has done enough to answer much of the criticism he has copped over last couple of seasons (or if you think he hasn’t, crikey, what does he to do more?)

Let’s not forget that that same man gave away 3 pens in the first 20 against Ireland and missed two kicks. I’m no huge fan of Ford (I’d have Cips in there any day), but the guy allows us to play a much wider game, especially with a good distributor at 12.

Faz, IMO, has the ability and skill-set of an international 12- distribution, passing, kicking, tackling, aggression… Like a reliable 12Trees. He poses minimal attacking threat though from 10, which means teams can defend against him with one eye on outside runners, unlike 10s with faster hands and feet.

The team is going well with Faz at 12 and Ford at 10, so why shake it up? Luckily, unlike Bomber, EJ is an experienced enough coach to know that, and I don’t think he will shake it up. IMHO, it would go even better with Care at 9, but I don’t pick the team.

Putting Farrell at 10, Tuilagi at 12 and JJ/Daly at 13 is effectively ripping up the game-plan that has got us the shot at the grand slam. You just don’t do it.

You are obviously talking about the Faz of old and haven’t seen too much of him this season for Sarries. He has added an attacking threat to his game, and with someone like Tuilagi running off his shoulder would pose a real threat to the French defence.

After the comments Eddie made about Tuilagi last week I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start against France. And if he does Faz needs to be playing at 10, if only for his superior place kicking. He kicked 20 points against Wales, and if he hadn’t been playing I would speculate that it would have been much closer at the end!

I think anyone still advocating Cipriani as an international 10 is showing exactly why they shouldn’t really comment on what makes an international 10.
My preferred start is Faz at 10, Slade at 12 with JJ, Tuilagi or Daly at 13. That makes my mouth water!
However, seeing as Slade is only just back, and because Ford has played in 4 winning games I’d stick with it for France.

Completely disagree with your comments on Cips. He’s way behind Farrell for me, but currently a much better player than Ford. His tactical kicking is now outstanding, his running game has always been brilliant and his decision making is as good as anyone. His goal kicking lacks but for this 6 nations with Farrell doing it anyway, he’d have been a much better choice than Ford in my opinion. I’m not really sure what about his game makes you think he isn’t an international 10?

I think, for me, and it’s the same for Ford, that it’s down to temperament more than anything else. For all the mercurial stuff they maybe able to do (which admittedly they are better at than Faz at) when the pressure comes on they are both likely to cost the team. Against NH teams it isn’t always exposed but when up against the very best they will get found out. The one thing Faz will give you is consistency and if needed a bit of dog and better desicion making.
Now I realise that the only way they are going to.improve that is to be exposed to pressure so when choosing between Ford and Cipriani as back up you really have to go on age and future which Ford wins. He has got time to develop it, Cipriani is a bit long in the tooth now. Plus Slade is the better option than both.

I think the opinion that Cips can be flaky under pressure is completely outdated.

His kicking is inconsistent, but to suggest he couldn’t play fly half internationally isn’t right.

I don’t disagree at all the Farrell is the more rounded fly half. But if under pressure against the best he sits 15 meters back in the pocket then that is just as bad (if not worse) than Cips missing a kick at goal.

I don’t think Farrell will do that again, he is much improved with ball in hand this year, but that is still an unknown until England play against the SH.

Deal in fact. Joubert , Poor

Not fact, opinion. For me Joubert did ok.

Joubert had a good game. Above all, he was pretty consistent with how he reffed the breakdown.

Tell you what tho’ if you go to Twickers dont drink , you can que for 30 mins for a urinal & when you get back to your seat Joubert still having a nightmare !!

So what your saying is that Joubert made a desicion that in your alcohol impaired state you disagreed with. You then.missed a large chunk of the game as your bladder couldn’t hold the beer and then come back to see Joubert make another desicion you didn’t like?

Yeah Jez something like that , but even with alcohol i can still spell “decision”
& Twickenham needs to build a few more toilet blocks. Reasonable request given the profit England Rugby just reported.

Unfortunately Elliot some words I struggle with, you’re not to know, but I’m sure you wouldn’t want to have an argument on that basis. Like I’m sure Joe Marler regrets what he said in the game.
However, ones ability to spell doesn’t affect the ability to have a rational opinion of both players and the referee. It somewhat diminishes you if you think that the ref was the reason for the result.

Apologies on the spelling comment Jez. The good news is that Wales v Eng do not play for another 12months. Woops they do!
They play a “friendly” in May @ twickenham ; great idea …Not

Marler has been caught on the ref microphone racially Samson Lee with ‘Gypsy boy’ when Samson Lee has been stating that he is proud of his Traveller heritage.

Any condemnation or critical comments for Joe Marler by the England fans???? No… thought not

I have. There is no place for this behaviour. And the condemnation has been widespread from fans, his coach, the RFU and indeed himself.

Quite. Haven’t heard any condemnation from Wales though about the gouge though. What is worse, a bit of (admittedly unacceptable) name calling or an attempt to risk blinding someone?

Seriously this thread contains some of the worst sour grapes I have ever heard from rugby fans. Some of you need to grow up and open more than your one eye or go back to whatever Bluebirds forum you are used to whining on.

This is all a bit silly – expecting fans/unions/coaches to immediately condemn their own players or it’ll be taken as tacit acceptance. No one fan speaks for their entire country and lack of outrage is not the same as acceptance. Marler has been cited for contact, Francis for hands to the face. If system works then Francis will get a long ban, I haven’t see the Marler contact incident. The racism needs to be dealt with quickly and thoroughly. A player can’t apologise something like that away.

As for part of your point – I don’t think comparing the severity of hitting/gouging to racism is the point really i.e. it doesn’t matter which is worse.

Great game, almost lost by indiscipline again. Cole needs to have a few lessons on when not to give away silly penalties!! Opponents half of the pitch you would possibly have got away with that, but 10 yards or so from our own line, no way Dan!!

Brown needs a kick up the arse and reminded that he is not droppable. My seven year old would have known to run to the corner to score that try! Any one else in that back line (yes even Farrell) would have run to the corner, but Brown decides to run straight at the last defender when he has a clear run to the line!!! Doughnut!!!!

All that said, we won, and Super Maro showed his true quality. Has he now surpassed Launchbury for his place? Will be interesting to see what Jones does next week.

Personally I would drop Cole for Brookes. He’s now more liability than asset and almost cost us a game we should never have been close to losing.

8 weeks for a gouge, 8 weeks. What a joke. 2 weeks less than an accidental contact.
The disciplinary process is a total crock.

You Welsh boyos whinge worse than we do when we lose!

We are not used to losing the big ones v England lately , so your possibly right Eddie you Aussie beauty . Enjoy the honeymoon !

Joubert had a decent game & after watching the gouging incident on TV I now understand what I thought was a huge error, it was still reckless contact with the eye area & deserved a yellow card, as did Haskell for his neck roll. Overall the ref was good.
I had a great time sitting high up in the stands sitting next to a huge welsh rugby player & we had very good banter throughout particularly near the end !!!
The fans who want to actually watch the game do get fed up with the alcohol fuelled tossers who are continually going to the bar or the toilets instead of concentrating on the game – inconsiderate & rude blocking the view of those unlucky enough to sit in their row or behind them. Seems a waste of money to me as they might as well watch it in the bar – get a life you drunken idiots

Lets get the old tartan blanket out and the prawn sandwiches from the silver plated lunch box & a flask of sweet tea , Come on England !

I think in the pressured situations you need Farrell. In my opinion he is mentally tuffer that Ford.
I have been a critic of Faz in the past but he has worked hard at developing his strengths and addressing his weaknesses.
If we are going to play an expansive game, l don’t see where Tuilagi fits in, he is not Ma Nonu( big, fast, great distribution and can kick) . If you want to use him, you have to develope his one dimensional game. Cockeril should have put him in the seconds and made him play fly half for 2 months at the end of his recovery.

I think Manu should be at 13 myself. I like to see two distributors and then a big guy taking the contact in the gap between 13 and winger.
In fact that’s the way Jamie Roberts should be used by Wales at 13. Against England he took contact at 12 with both Farrell and an impressive Haskell hitting him together. Have him wider, attacking a gap causing two players to stop him including the wide player…result space for North to exploit. Just think Greenwood and Tindall.

Don’t forget England’s other great centre pairing, Carling and Guscott. Manu and Joseph/ Daly would be a significant step up. Daly is probably the better distributor having previously played at 10 and 15.

144 replies on “Rate the match: England vs Wales, Six Nations 2016”