Rate the match between Ireland and England at the Aviva Stadium, and leave your thoughts on the game in the comments section below.
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Wednesday, 3rd June 2015
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Great finish to a great weekend of matches.
Can’t wait to hear the “it really has been an awful 6 nations” brigade come out now! They seem to always come out when Ireland does well the the Championship.
Looking forward to the Millennium and Mr Po-Face!! : o
DDD
Ha ha. Well we’ve already had the “only NZ could have beaten that Ireland performance” one so the “poor six nations” cliche can’t be long.
We shall welcome you and your genius coach with open arms – into which we shall great fully receive all of those kicks as we have a decent back 3.
Really weird moment there almost Proustian! When I read “open arms” I was transported back to Cardif Arms!!! JPR Williams Gareth Edwards …. Jumpers for goal-posts – think I ‘ve had too much Guinnness
DDD
England were terrible. That was the one time when subs needed to come on early, not around the late 60th min and chase the game in the last 10min, Cipriani should have came on, Ford struggled in that match.
Also hope Goode does not comeback in a England shirt. Mike Brown was missed.
Vitually every England kick including kick offs was at least 10 metres too far and kick chase almost didn’t exist.These guys are on hundreds of thousands of £ but some of the basics are awful.Ditto the penalty count.12t must be dropped from the squad and why does SL play Easter in 2nd row.
Ireland well deserved winners
This was a classic case of the Irish making the English look like idiots. We know Ireland will play a very tight game against England. Yet our coaching played right into their hands. If we drill our players in all the ways they can give up a penalty we starve Ireland of points. Instead they do nothing more fancy than run into us and we give away penalties. England finally started to play rugby in final 10 minutes. Why does it always seem like we play only when desperate or as a last resort. Dumb and dumberer.
I often wonder who rates a game 1, 2 or 3 and today especially. It was a good game; even if you wanted England to win the game was good; plenty of back n forth through errors and some creative play to boot. Thoroughly enjoyed
England started badly and never regained composure until last ten mins. Fair play Ireland they were outstanding. I don’t think any team bar New Zealand could have lived with that. Their kicking game really was brilliant. Very much a first tier of New Zealand, a second tier or Ireland South Africa, England and aus and then the rest. Disappointed england lost but, I wasn’t expecting us to win 4/5 won’t be too bad a six nations in the end.
Dream on with that tier statement.
How would you rate them then Brighty?
I want to see next weekend games. Really think that would be a good yardstick for ireland – could be 2/3rds if a crown. In which case i would then put them in a 2nd tier all of their own at the mo, below NZ. Fully expect Aus and Sa to improve. Would I put England up there in a tier like the original post with two teams who have beaten them? Recently? No. Do I thknk England are a whole tier above Wales? No. Do I think only NZ could have coped with Ireland today? No.
Fair enough to wait. Have to say that I think that NZ would have coped with Ireland today. They wouldn’t have got bullied at the breakdown like we did. In fact Ireland’s work at the breakdown did remind me of NZ. Any sniff of a turnover and suddenly the green jerseys went flying in. Very kiwi like.
I think it is more a case of NZ in their own stratosphere – then about 5 – 7 teams that are grouped below. Ireland, England, SA, Wales, Australia, possibly even France or Argentina but I think they are slightly below those 5.
Jacob. You can’t put France in there at the moment. Not until they start playing as a team. Would you back Argentina to push NZ close and win a decent proportion of games against the other “tier two” teams. Probably not. I guess on that criteria, Oz and Wales deserve to be in a very subjective “tier two” so Brighty probably is right on this one.
Agree with you on Argentina and France – hence not including them in that tier.
However, for me they are above the next tier (Scotland/Italy/Somoa), hence mentioning them.
how much rate of today match
The kindest thing you can say about Lancaster and Farrell Senior right now is that they are naive in the extreme and not suited to international test match rugby, unless circumstances hand them a selection by fluke. No cohesion, no tactical awareness, and no willing to dare. And that is based on three years, not this match.
Ireland showed why they were favourites for 6N! Well done to them. Starting 8 beat us at scrum and lineout. England were second best at the breakdown, very impressed by Ireland there. And as for the kick chase. We knew what was coming. Very well executed. Ireland do need to wrap Sexton in cotton wool though. He is what makes them tick. I hate to say it, but if they play NZ in the RWC, Sexton will be targeted and will be lucky to make it through the game. Or is that just the cynic in me?
Negatives for England. Kick chase – was it a deliberate policy to not challenge the catcher – awful. Goode, Wigglesworth’s glacial delivery, and Attwoods decision making. Other than that it was mainly Ireland just playing better.
when everyone was tipping England to win it was obvious that Ireland were going to win!
Dire. Two teams with the players to light up the tournament and game plans designed to limit them. Not a good one for the neutral. Wouldn’t pay to watch either of these teams at the moment. Ireland won and were the better team, were england actually trying to play rugby? Nothing more to say about this one really.
Lukov, I seem to remember reading that before! Personally I think that there was a difference between the games. have to say that we were well and truly bottled up today. Lost at the breakdown and never generated the quick ball we needed. The difference that I was referring to was that Wales generated some quicker ball but never wanted to do anything bar bosh it up the middle. We had greater plans I think but we were made to look second best by the Irish. As has been said, the Millenium match will sort the bragging rights out.
Ireland were the better team and fully deserved to win but bloody hell England!! All the positives disappeared and they choked it. Goode and 12T should not be in the squad again now, they just didn’t perform to the required level at all. Why did Cips not come on? SL failed completely with his subs again for me and I think his strange bench selection was shown up – why is Easter coming on in 2nd row? England’s kicking game was poor from minute 1 yet no obvious attempt to change it, in fact what exactly were the tactics for England today? Ireland were tactically sound with a far more defined and coherent plan, bad day for England’s coaches!!
Totally agree Stu. The question is why? Really,how do you explain a performance like that? I was flabbergasted.
I suppose there will still be some poor,deluded fools who think we are genuine contenders for the WCup.
I fear for the rest of the 6N let alone september!
Well played Ireland, Once again we had a couple of gears left to spare and played at maybe 80% if even that. Reading some of the comments from various fans of the red rose on various forums I have to say the vast majority have been gracious in defeat so fair play. Though forgive me for having a little snigger with a lot of the comments leading up to this game. England were going to show up in Dublin and do this that and the other. Blow us away. Better this better that I mean come on lol had we been at 100% and Sexton on the pitch for the full 80 mins, really, England would have been well and truly beyond destroyed. True England have players to come back from injury and its a young team but you did well and were lucky to leave Dublin with just a ten point difference. Schmidts team at 100% and the intensity we bring along with Sexton who is clearly the best 10 in the world at the moment firing on all cylinders theres only one team who could live with our intensity. And thats the All Blacks. Good luck for the remainder of the championship England fans. Always good craic when you come over for the game.
Hmm. What to say. I thought England’s inexperience would cost us at some point, sometimes it’s the only way you learn, but the nativity was staggering at times, especially the decision not to kick for goal at 6-3.
However I give all credit to Ireland for making England look so ordinary. Their class and nous shone through today. Oh for England to have someone in the coaching set up with an ounce of the savy of Schmidt.
For instance, why wasn’t Lawes on the bench. Clearly SL couldn’t predict that Attwood would have the worst game of his life today, but why persist with the sticking plaster of Easter and Croft covering lock. We could have done with his abrasiveness today. I also echo the thoughts of those calling for Cipriani to get on. Couldn’t have been worse than Goode who failed to repay the faith I had in him ahead if this match. 12t returned to type too. Would Slade have been any worse?
I imagine this will be another 6n where we finish played 5 won 4. It about sums up Bomber. Good but good enough.
Can’t blame not kicking for goal at 6-3 on inexperience given that was Robshaw’s decision and he was clear for the reasons about it after the game. It was a daft decision but if Robshaw isn’t experienced now then he never will be.
It was naivety. Just don’t understand how Robshaw keeps having these brain farts.
Fair enough but it’s not from lack of caps anymore. I thought it was worth mentioning given the focus on cap counts nowadays in previews and post-mortems. England’s best players were their least experienced imo until Easter came on. Robshaw has no “inexperienced” excuses anymore.
Not an excuse for me Brighty, just a depressing realisation. I think our most experienced players were the most disappointing today.
Not sure about that – best English players were Vunipola and Cole and certainly that latter is extremely experienced.
Very disappointed with how little Ireland actually needed to do to win. Far from pleased to see a side spend more time together and become more disjointed. Dismayed Cips stayed on the bench, if it’s a 2 point game I can understand it, but we needed to score tries.
But well done Ireland, the Schmidt hallmarks of executing the basic skills to perfection are there for all to see, looking the most likely NH side to mount a serious RWC challenge.
Thought that Goode played well, the try cannot be attributed to anything he did wrong and his escape from under the posts was sublime.Agree that 12T should be nowhere near an international team
Yes you can blame Goode. He barely got off the ground. I guarantee Brown would have made more of a nuisance of himself. Don’t know if he would have prevented the try but likely would have given the TMO a tougher decision.
One fortuitous run from under his posts does not excuse the rest of his dire play.
Goode was incredibly bad. Did he try and run every ball back? Who does he think he is? Mike Brown?
I thought Goode was really really poor – but I don’t blame him for the try. He was just caught under it and the manning with momentum running onto the ball was always going to out jump him.
However the rest of his game was dreadful. He seemed to ignore his strengths and try to play the way Brown plays – which really isn’t his strength.
I thought Goode was poor today. Jump ball on your own line. Just make sure it goes into touch or out of the goal area. Never made a proper attempt for it. Never got off the ground on any other catch either. Good club player, but doesn’t have the athleticism to play international. How we needed Brown or Foden today. Would have preferred to see Pennell myself, but I guess SL went with experience. That didn’t work!
Goode was poor but with Brown and Foden both injured SL didn’t really have a great deal of choice.
I certainly think we’d have lost anyway so it’s a slightly mute point.
Beyond destroyed? Not really, 1988 was a beyond destroyed….The rose will perform at the W cup again, and Ireland will choke it again, the real value of this tournament is that the lessons will be taken forward. SL has to get his bench decisions correct, prearranged against Wales and non existent against Ireland. Ford will survive I think, sorry Cips you had you’re chance and royally stuffed it up. Big talents to come back into contention so reasons to be hopeful…still can’t really see the WC being held aloft by anyone other than the SH..
How exactly has Cipriani stuffed it up? He didn’t play today so didn’t fall off tackles,run into his teammates,not bother to chase kicks,ponce about watching backs contest rucks with forwards standing ten yards away etc.
On todays evidence I can think of at least four or five players who did far more to “stuff it up” than a non playing replacement!
All the old doubts about SL and the rest of the coaching staff (Rowntree excepted) came storming back out of the woodwork this afternoon.
It’s going to take more than a bit of bench tinkering to right the wrongs we saw today.
Just another little bumhurt hater, Burt. Why don’t you go and play bowls. Ireland missed Sexton in the 2nd half, but otherwise it was a clear case of Ireland showing that they are #3 in the world and England just aren’t. It’s the SH teams + Ireland in tier one right now. The rest, including the haters, are below.
I have no idea what it means but “bumhurt hater” is the funniest thing I’ve read on here.
Wow. You really know how to a kick a fan when he’s down. Remind them that are no longer #3 in the world rankings. Tier 1. Hardly. But Ireland are very good. Will be interesting to see if they play so well away from home against Wales in a few weeks, the world cup warm ups and the world cup itself.
How good were Ireland and how poor were England? Ireland were good and will go on to win this 6N. In every area of the game they outplayed England until the last 15 minutes.
Sexton gave Ford a lesson,Kearney was better than Goode,who I thought had a reasonable game to be fair. Ireland wanted this game ,England just seemed to want it out of the way.
As an Englishman I am baffled by what I saw today and quite depressed. I saw a return of all the old weaknesses that I genuinely believed Lancaster had managed to expunge.
The kicking game was a shambles, Goode and Watson looked like they had met five minutes before kick off,(what do these players work on in training?) uncontested lineouts (WTF),and first up tackling that would have shamed my Granny. Oh and it took 65 minutes for an England forward to hit a ruck with the intention of clearing his man out. Pathetic.
Don’t get me wrong.Ireland were excellent but for 60 minutes England were nearly as bad as France were on Saturday.
SL and a lot of players have some serious soul searching to do. Do they want to “hurt for the shirt”? because I saw a lot of very polite,almost apologetic forwards out there today,Haskell was almost anonymous,ditto Hartley.
JJ emerged with credit,doing more in attack and defence than the 17st non entity beside him. I could go on but what really does concern me was the team ethos today. If England don’t know by now that Ireland in Dublin are going to come out absolutely firing and you have to go toe to toe for the full 80 just to stay in the game then someone is definitely in the wrong job.
Just read the comments on the “rate the match” France v Wales page. So given that the widely accepted opinion is that that match was a bore fest with two limited game plans and very little attacking endeavour etc. then I guess this game was worse given England were even more limited than France in attacking and Ireland superbly stuck to their exceptionally well executed but I guess monotonous (and hence dull in some opinions?) plan A?
I, and interestingly so did people I never thought I’d agree with (Woodward, Guscott, Keith Wood and, ffs I need a shower, Inverdale) thought that last nights game was excellent and so was today’s. Fully committed defences, winning teams with a plan that they executed superbly, tense outcomes, moments of individual brilliance on which momentum was built. Ireland didn’t give Joseph a sniff of a yard in which to work. They pummelled the middle of the pitch and the wings with perfectly weighted kicks. They tag teamed Burrell into anonymity. They schooled England at the breakdown and even coped well with their best player going off with far too much time left. If that isn’t model top end rugby then I don’t know what is. There was even a refreshing lack of reset scrums and dire handling errors. I loved watching Ireland neuter every single one of England’s strengths in a tactical masterclass built on total commitment to the plan. Fantastic game and so were yesterday’s.
I see someone has splashed out on a magnum of Shadenfreude.
Whilst agree it was very much a case of men vs boys today, I actually thought Joseph had a good game. Seemed to make yards when he got the ball (probably all of 3 times today) and stood up well in defence.
England seem to get worse the longer they are in camp (the opposite of Wales) a failing I put at Bomber’s door.
Still the defence was there and thank f**k we’re at Twickenham all the way up to the we final (joke).
I picked it up cheap from the leftovers of all the England fans having a field day criticising the boring and limited Wales yesterday.
Of which I was not one. I understand your frustration at being criticised when you win “ugly” a feat usually deemed the hall mark of a championship side, but it doesn’t hurt to be honest too. I personally think that England’s and Wales’ problems are not too dissimilar. Limited coaches. I wonder if the Welsh coaching staff is past its sell by date. England’s are just not ripe and never will IMO.
Still we are where we are. Another runners up spot beckons (if we’re lucky)
The next round will give me a much better idea of where teams are. Stepping back fror a second. Ireland have laboured last Italy away and then beat France in a, I would say, less convincing manner than Wales did and we did it away. So I think, and I fully expect Schmidt to be on top of this, they’re not the amazing team (yet?) that they’re mow being billed as ie not streets ahead of the chasing pack. Wallop us in the next round though and I’ll have to concede that point.
Wales win in France. We beat them 3 times on the trot for the first time ever. I’m happy with our trajectory after 3 games, gutted we stuffed up the first one.
On the limited coaches thing – I understand the opinions but I still find myself seeing Gats record of the most successful 6 nations coach of this century. He’s done all of that with smallest country in the tournament and players from 4 bottom end regions (at least they were originally). He’s making more out of his resources, not less. SL tbough is, I think, out of his depth. Nice guy. Good at the management accountancy and event planning stuff, not so good at the picking a good team and getting them to play in a style stuff.
Add in some European cups for Gats and a triple crown or two with Ireland (who were woeful before he arrived) and I just don’t get the brickbats he gets other than people not liking his approach to the game. Oh, and he’s a dislikable sod as well but he’s an ex kiwi hooker so what do people expect? Look at Hartley for further examples…
Brighty, as you well know, I criticised Wales performance against France and I stand by it. I have said time and again that Gatland has a really talented backline, much better than ours, but he refuses to use it. Bosh up the middle over and over again until something breaks. Has been working, but isn’t really going to be enough for the RWC. If you and the rest of the Welsh supportersdthink it is fine, well good luck to you. As it stands, Ireland have reminded us that we have our own problems. On’ve again we were tactically niaive. I have long supported SL, but have to say that we just didnt appear to be prepared today. No excuses. Well beaten. Was it a good match to watch for the neutral. Well most of the Welsh commentators seemed to enjoy it so it can’t have been that bad!
Staggy – most wide plays this tournament? Wales. Most counter attacking runs? Halfpenny. Most use of narrow players off 1st phase ball? England. Most use of the maul? England.
I just don’t see this pure bosh. I see us playing to our strengths – Jamie Roberts. I see us mixing it up – Webb’s break that led to the try (lovely link play from Lyds).
Ireland showed today, and Italy yesterday, what Edwards was on about last week – most international tries at the moment come from mauls or kick chases. Wales are well placed to capitalise on that and we can use the bosh to soak it up when we need to.
It wasn’t a dig. But I just haven’t seen Wales progress much since 2011/12. Gatland because of his great success could have looked to broaden the strategy post the 2012 GS, perhaps he would have if he’d not had a year out with the Lions, but I can’t help feeling Wales should be better than they are, although that just my outside (and probably ill informed) opinion.
Agree re bomber, although he still way better than Andy Robinson who was very experienced!
Benjit, when Gats came in he ruled with an iron rod – you will play like this, you will train like this, you will do as I command. After the 07 slam he delib loosened things – we were then dire. He’s on record as saying that he thinks the Welsh players need a firm law laid down and that 08 experiment is not something he will repeat. Since then 2 more titles and a wc semi. He seems to know what he is doing and what these boys are capable of. I see the criticism but then as I said – I see his results and then I see the plaudits for Schmidt when they were worse against France than us and painful against Italy. People just don’t like Gats. I don’t think I do either. I think this dislike colours people’s opinions. That and the worse SH record but none of the home nations have an awesome record there. A few more wins than us but as %ages we are all way, way behind the SH. The Lions was also a problem. I love the lions but history shows it is always dire for Wales in the seasons after, made worse when it’s our coach.
Andy Robinson – funniest memory was him smashing crap out of that little glass box they put coaches in up in murrayfield.
07 slam? I think I’ve got my dates wrong there but it’s late. The general point is true, if not the detail.
Brighty. You’re normally the first to rubbish statistics as they can ‘ve misleading. Would like to know the percentage of wide plays. My memory of the Welsh games was large amounts of possession, but the majority being up the middle. England have not had the possession dominance against any of their opponents, but have made reasonable use of it, up to Ireland who shut us down – fair play to them. At this stage, I still think that Wales have a better team than England, but are underperforming. You thought that about 13 of the players in a composite English Welsh team would be Welsh. So why aren’t you doing better? Am I the only person who thinks you should be doing better with what you have? To be fair, I would also like to see England doing better with what we have, which is a good pack but very inexperienced and unsettled backline. Out of the England and Irish backlines only JJ would make it into a composiite team and out of the English and Welsh backlines probably only Ford. So why aren’t you using your strengths. At least we are trying to use ours.
Staggy, yes I know I rubbish stats. Mentioned this one on a Jamie blog last week because it’s now the only ammo I have left against the “Warrenball” idea – not only is it subjectively wrong it is also, it appears, factually wrong – http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/six-nations-2015-full-details-8680718 . It surprised me as well because I’m so used to seeing us get rubbished for not having run England off the park.
I think Wales under performed against England whereas England exceeded themselves with some rare choice back play. At the end we lost that match by 5 pts playing really badly for the second 40 because England played really well and put us under the cosh. We’re not enough better than England to be able to cope with them on an up and us not being 100% at the races. If both teams were having the game of their lives then I’d back us to win it – so I’d still go for our players on balance. (also my comment was in the context of imagining who from England could come into that Wales side and displace existing players which tends to make it harder for an England player to do it).
On Ford – I wouldn’t swap Biggar right now for all the tea in China. Seriously. A man who has proved this particular doubter wrong. He’s becoming the fulcrum of our side. Sexton is a better player but I am excited about Biggar’s improvement. Wouldn’t put Ford ahead of him personally. I’d have Joseph in front of an out of form JD. Before last weekend I’d have had Parling in the 2nd row but wow, what a performance from AWJ and Charteris. I’d have had any England wing ahead of Cuthbert but I’m happy with Liam Williams now.
Think that is slightly biased thinking. If we look back to when SL took over, Wales were miles ahead of where England were at that current time.
Since then, England have more than made that ground up and arguable sneaked ahead based on the last two fixtures between the two sides.
Based on that how can it be argued that SL is out of his depth by Gats is excelling?
Jacob – to answer your question – Gats has won titles. With a smaller player base. After taking over from a similar low point (personally I think lower as I don’t recall England being dumped out of the WC at the group stages by Fiji after a player led revolt against their Grand Slam winning coach and then their captain almost getting into a fight on TV…).
Everyone rightly talks up England’s strength in depth. SL should be doing better with it. It has now been 3 years. In the supposed horrible spell under Jonno they still won a title. England were not as bad back then as it can be convenient to remember – take out some dwarf tossing and ferry hopping and you had a team that was struggling in a changeover from experience to new boys but still not half bad as there was and is plenty of talent to choose from.
England still have, and it’s still often mentioned in match previews and reviews, lots of players with < 10 caps. SL must take some of the blame for that. He persisted with Farrel. He persisted with May, Goode on the bench, Brad Barrit, 12Ts when there were better players out there who he now has to rely on with less caps. Gatland on the other hand gets the opposite side of the abuse – he's criticised for keeping with boys for too long but then Wales get given grief for not dominating sides when they've got much more experienced players.
England are a team that target titles and WC finals. By that rationale SL is out of his depth.
Wales are a team who, no matter how much Gats says differently, are over the moon with Grand Slams, competitive World Cup tournaments and the odd SH black eye because we had nearly 20 years of tussling for the wooden spoon. By those standards Gats truly is The Messiah – yes, this is having low expectations but I spent almost my entire adult life watching us get stuffed before he arrived so I am willing to cut him a boatload of slack.
Gats did a brilliant job when he took over – but I’m talking about since SL took over here.
Gats won a brilliant GS is 2012 – then I don’t think Wales have progressed at all since then (if anything regressed).
SL took over having to completely overhaul the England squad, and we have gone very 6 nations since winning 4 out of 5. Why do we have to win titles? 4 out of 5 is bloody impressive to do year in year out. That’s really good consistency that I’m pretty happy with. SL hasn’t had a WC yet – so how can you say he has failed there?
The number of caps in the backs is not a simple thing to solve either. Watson, Nowell and Joseph (all of which are the best options now that he is picking) simply were not options even 18 months ago. How can that be blamed on SL? When Barritt played for too long, it was 12T that everyone was calling to be in – again at that time (I’m thinking 2013 6N), Burrell was not even playing for Saints to he was not an option.
My point is, you can look back now and blame SL for these caps, but to me, that is simply wrong.
Gats has won 2 titles since SL took over. 2013 as well. I do think it matters – you could see always losing one and not doing enough on pts diff to take the title as worryingly consistent from the other side? That’s compounded when you’re England and your targets are to be the best in the world.
I guess the question is who would you rather have in charge of your national side – SL or Gats? I’d go with Gats. I am more confident he will win titles in the future than SL will. SL is not the man to take England to winning things as far as I can see. I wish Gats was given as much slack as he is. It has been 3 years and when they falter he still gets given credit for taking over after Jonno as if he took over the worst and most poorly backed team in the world.
Obviously this is all subjective – when SL wins the world cup I’ll have to take it all back but it keeps getting closer and I don’t see England as sig. better than they were 2 years ago? So by the same rationale he is as stale as Gats?
* in addition SL will probably also win this years tournament and then he’ll really have told me to shut up.
See we are probably going round in circles here, but I’d take SL every day of the week.
Take last year, Eng didn’t win the Championship because Ireland stuffed more points on Italy. Did that make them a much better side than us? Did that mean Smidt was a genius and SL useless? Not in my book.
Championships in years without a GS don’t bother me too much if I’m completely honest.
For example, if England do go on to win the Championship because Wales beat Ireland, will I think any more of SL than if Ireland go on to win a GS? Absolutely not – it’s not relevant or within our control.
The exception to that Championship rule might be Wales 2013 win when it must have felt like a GS given that final performance! Would also note that Gats did not win that as he was off with the Lions from summer 2012 so only has that 2012 GS over SL.
THe short answer is YES. Obviously a an england fan I had far more interest in this game, caring greatly about the result. But it was not a great match to watch unless you enjoy particularly fine examples of clear out and kick chases.
The result rarely looked in doubt. There was very little in the way of slick passing and running.
I am watching this game recorded ,54mins on the clock and already as an England fan I am thinking what a pile of Sh-t. So far England have not even attempted to turn up. They are playing an Ireland side ( not an exceptional Ireland side). They have been well and truly f—ed at the breakdown. If they have any aspiration in the World Cup, on this performance I don’t see why. It’s woeful , they look and feel like kids. The lack of aggression is embarrassing. I don’t want to here that ” but it’s Lansdown road away game nonsense. My conclusion is we missed Laws( edgy aggressive), Mike Brown ( Edgy aggressive ) and the rest of the team’ s spine was left in the changing room. Honestly if this is how we perform against Ireland we may as well pack up and go home. This is not the battle of two titanic rugby nations. In a pragmatic game the one thing you really need is edgy aggression to tip the balance— seriously f–ked off.( 74 mins gone -nothing has changed )
Did it take you 20 minutes to write this?
Exceptional maths. Agree Joseph had a great game( and has been our most offensive weapon in th last two games) defensively .
Superb……utterly Ireland…….. well done the boys in green.
Cracking St David’s Day gift all the way from Dublin. Thank you O’Connell et al.
England in the 6n yet again crashing down to earth like Icarus falling into seas off the isle of Samos.
It really is time the England fans woke up and smelt the coffee.
You are not as good as you and the English controlled media say you are.
Ireland will win in Cardiff and go on to take the Grand Slam and deny England the the 6n trophy.
So no silverware again for England..
Ha…… ha …..ha…. ha….. ha…… ha……
Interesting that you the scenario you would most like to happen is your team losing at home. What a patriot!
England are still a good shout for the title. Scotland and France to play – by then France will really have zero to care about. If, big big big if, Wales beat Ireland by 10 then we still need to beat Italy, away, by something like 15 more than Ireland beat Scotland by (if). Even after all of that England would then go into the final game, against a hapless and dispirited France, knowing exactly what score they need.
Though something in me fancies a flutter on Scotland to really upset things down at HQ.
I did say before the tournament that I thought both Scotland and France would pull off one big game each. Probably both be at Twickenham now! Although after this weekend, I’m not sure where these performances are going to come from. Just can’t see Wales beating Ireland, but I have been wrong before.
It’s emminently possible Wales will beat Ireland in Cardiff. Sexton witha dodgy hammy would change things up considerably. Then it would come down to points difference, and England have a decent shout there, given their points against Italy vs Irelands.
I;d like to see a change so head to head was the first tie-breaker, but that’s another story.
And I fear that Scotland might implode from here. Their forwards have been bullied 3 straight now, and being beaten at home by Italy could be a difficult blow to take. England at Twickenham could be bridge too far. I could see England putting 40 on them.
Agree Sexton is crucial to Ireland. Game changed when he came off. Head to head won’t make any difference if Wales beat Ireland, as assuming all three win their remaining games, they will have won one and lost one against the other two. Maybe the team that had to play more of those games away should get the 6N in those circumstances…………….?
I love Brighty’s comments cos they always say what is in my mind; even when the odds are there for Ireland to clinche a grandslam I got hope wales will upset them next week. I also sat watching the scorelines eagerly; when Ireland were on to crushing england I was against better nature hoping england would pull it closer to keep the wales requirement a possibility.
Wales tournament will begin or end with the Ireland game; the score difference im not worried about we all remember Wales troucing England and taking the title when ever expected England to record an easy win.
I got my eyes on Wales to beat Ireland by 6-10 then crush Italy for the title; but hell im prolly blinded by loyalty…but i’ll take that if it keeps hope alive :D
Michael, you’re memory isn’t working too well. In 13 most of us expected a narrow Welsh win but England to take it on points difference. No one expected an easy English win. As it was, we were trounced.
Staggy – a few level headed souls on here knew 2013 would be a hard match for England (but as you say, still thought a win was a good shout). I guess what Michael is referring to is that your voices are mostly drowned out by the maximum volume chuntering of the English press, Twitter, some ex (and current) players and copious media comment pages that were 100% positive of England riding their chariot hard all over our faces. As a Welshman it’s sometimes hard to spot the genuine rugby fan in amongst the 1000 other faces constantly telling us we suck, we’re overhyped, we’re a “little brother” nation, etc.
I never thought you’d refer to me as level headed………..! I’m sorry but if you have to judge a nation on any criteria please let it not be on the basis of the media! They create hype to sell papers/adverting/personal profile/etc, not to give the boring view. I am however still not convinced that anyone was predicting an easy win. I can remember predictions of an England win, but not easy. I may stand to be corrected, but that is what I remember.
I was referring to more easy win the 6nations not win the match itself; if my memory serves (which is a hell of a gamble) alot of the comments on here put the game 2-3pts either way; most people I spoke to away from the site thought england.
To be fair; i don’t speak to people often that are really rugby fan’s and they just assume England = Superior in all sport & Wales = poor; so as u can gather mostly football fans lol My apologies if i wasn’t clear.
I do think everyone has 2 minds; the pride in your own and the logical side of the brain; the proud of me goes into every game saying Wales by 30+ the logical usually smaller margin and sometimes even a loss; next game against Ireland my pride is telling me Wales by 6-10 my head is saying give or take 3pts – if we can attain the win against Ireland (which will be a push) I think the tournament will be ours or a v.tight pt difference.
When fit: Corbisiero, Hartley, Cole, Lawes Atwood, Croft, Morgan, Robshaw, YoungS, Ford, Tuilagi, Joseph, Watson, Wade, Brown
Can’t see Attwood in a starting 15 when all fit myself. Launchbury for me. Not convinced by Wade either. He gets better the more he doesn’t play. Can’t decide between May and Nowell. Nowell solid, May mercurial – might make something out of nothing, but also might leak a try. Today showed that we need as much experience as possible on the pitch. Can’t argue with the rest.
It’s more to do with the coaches than the players. Ireland were bang up for this game and tactically switched on. England looked like they were on death row from the first whistle.
You could pick 3 teams of English players that SHOULD be good enough to give any side in the world a good game. The quality is there the nous, at the moment, is not.
Coaches and players in my mind. We are lacking on experience and it has been shown time and time again that wise heads tend to win tight games. As the kiwis say – top 6 inches is the most important. I thought coming into this game that we had developed core leadership. Was proved woefully wrong!
Credit to Ireland, they and Schmidt succeeded exactly as their reputation has preceded them. They exploited our weaknesses and nullified our strengths. Their ferocity at the breakdown was quite something, so impressive even that Attwood seemed utterly clueless at times when trying to clear out. And I don’t know what was said to McGrath and Ross but they did very well to sustain parity against two props who were widely tipped to dominate.
Combine that and our horrendous kick chase and we pretty much had no territory to play in. Definitely missed Lawes and Brown today. Goode quite nicely got us out of trouble once, but his general counter attacking was poor and his inability to get himself even a foot off the floor to compete in the air with Henshaw displayed an alarming lack of athleticism for an “international” full back.
Would have been rooting for them anyway given I am half Welsh, but Wales must win in Cardiff in two weeks time.
I really thought Ireland were excellent. In particular the way they outplayed England at the breakdown. There was a threat of a turnover almost every time England carried the ball in and England’s ball was slow as a result. England were having to overcommit numbers into the ruck as a result which meant both that the player on the next phase was likely to be isolated and that they couldn’t go wide to use their dangerous strike runners.
England have been crap at the breakdown throughout SL’s tenure. Backs trying to secure the ball with the forwards all having a breather five yards away. It drives me effing mad.
Just one of the many things “bomber” has failed to address during his time in office.
England went backwards in more ways than one on Sunday.
Anyone can lose a game but some of the things I saw just fill me with despair.
Sexton gave England a torrid time of it in the first 15 minutes with Goode, Nowell and Watson not owning the high balls at all. A good tactical decission from Schmidt but not an unexpected one. If we had a better back three it could possibly have been high risk as it would have been turning over possetion and allowing England to run it back, however it was well judged and excellently executed.
Beyond that it could still have been a close game if England hadn’t let their discipline go to pot. The amount of time times i shouted ‘oh for f***s sake [insert england palyer of choice]’ as they needlessly came in at the side either within kicking range or when we had Ireland under pressure in their own 22.
The kick chase was bad as it seemed Irelands back 3 had an age to field the ball and make a decision.
In general Ireland played well and were by far the better team but in could still have been close should England have played better
Well done Ireland as an England fan I am gutted, I really thought that we were better than that, especially after schooling the welsh in the MS.
I was expecting our forwards to give us at least parity at the breakdown and a big advantage in the scrum but that was no where to be seen.
I think this was the first game where our extensive injury list also came into play, I’m thinking second row and full back. However I don’t think that would have reversed the end result.
It wasn’t a great spectacle but fair play to Ireland they carried out their game plan brilliantly. I think SL made a few poor selection decisions, Cips definitely should have come on after the Ireland try they had us more than worked out by then so why not role the dice? 12T needs to be dropped and genuine second row cover put on the bench rather than what ever the plan is at the mo. Why is Danny Care no longer in the mix? I just don’t feel that Wigglesworth brings any threat off the bench! I’d like to see Eastmond come in (unless injured) as I think he really adds something in attack either for 12T or Burrell who isn’t playing as well as last year. Alex Goode would be so much better if he actually ran with the ball rather than playing hopscotch on the spot. Would have preferred Watson at FB and stick with May and JN on the wings?
Anyway …. It’s definitely Irelands to lose who are looking a cut above this year but Cardiff will be a huge game and the welsh always get better as the tournament goes on and kicking to their back 3 wont work as well as yesterday…. looks like a 3 horse race to me.
Got a really bad feeling about the Scotland game though, I’m sure their going to win 1 game this year!
What a disappointing and unimaginative performance from England. I have seen schoolboys kick better. Absolutely astonishing tactics.
1. An inexplicable kick off tactic to put the ball totally out of the forwards’ reach on 4 occasions to give Ireland unopposed possession. Why? I did not see one quality kick from England.
2. The backs very rarely received the ball at pace and never looked like threatening Ireland’s defence. If you have fast backs they must receive the ball when they can do something with it.
3. Not one substitution made sense and were in any far too late to have any effect.
4. Why can England not avoid giving away so many penalties? And you should not give away line outs so easily at this level.
5. Ford had a poor game and it was apparent from early in the match that his kicking was damaging England, we have an in form imaginative Cipriani, who is immediately creative and threatening when he comes onto the field, why not use him?
Its so obvious. Ford should have come off after 30 minutes.
Socinus
Simon I could not agree more!Just take kick offs.It appears there is’nt a member of England set up that posseses even half a brain.How can they be so dumb?And they are all on £100’s.How can they start 3 matches on the trot with such little intention of shaking up the oppostion.I’m not sorry I didn’t renew my rfu debenture
Two words Simon: Coaching staff. The players become robots when SL gets his hands on them.
Cipriani is a victim of the SL ego. He got his little cameo against Italy with the game well and truly won. No risk in that for Stuart you see. It’s not like cips turned a losing situation into a winning one thus requiring some humility from bomber. He’s a cunning bastard our Stuart.
He’s also way out of his depth but hey ho,it’s only world Cup year so nothing at stake!
Agree with everything in these last few comments, this game again highlights the lack of coaching experience and skill within the England camp. The only (usually) effective piece are the forwards and Rowntree was there already…what from a technical and tactical view has SL improved upon? The game plan has not really evolved, skills and patterns don’t seem to be better, selections and subs are still strange….?
I worry we have a coach that looks good and says the right things but isn’t sharp enough on the training ground..I don’t want an RFU poster boy I want a tactician and leader!!
rant over lol
I’m not sure he even says the right things to be honest.
I know it’s very easy to point the finger and trash someone but I read a very thought provoking comment from someone on this site a few days ago. Of all the big Rugby union nations England are the only ones currently being led by a coach with no previous international experience.
Now that IS significant. If SL were showing himself to be some kind of unalloyed genius with England beating all comers then the point would be redundant. As we all know that ain’t happening. England under Bomber are stumbling along.I really do not see any genuine signs of progress,cohesion,tactical nous or even physicality.Every time England meet opponents who ask them serious questions they don’t know the answers. Sunday was just one of many times under SL when they have cracked under pressure. Yes, I know they have a number of young players (SL chose them) yes they have had injuries to key players( so have other nations) but time and again Robshaw makes a serious error of judgement,so called senior players go missing,the basics get forgotten and England look callow,dumb,edgy,and rudderless.
It’s not the losing,it’s the manner of the loss that does the damage.
There is something seriously wrong here. It all feels far too cosy. Losing seems almost acceptable at times. The same old “we’ll work very hard to put “X” right before the next game” gets trotted out,
Robshaw does his “we’re all bitterly disappointed” schtick,everyone trots back to Bagshot and its back to the future again.
Sorry but it’s not good enough. Nowhere near.
Come on RFU earn your corn.
It is easy to criticise a loosing team but as you say it is the manner and quality of the loss which is disturbing. Also since we are fans of the most highly funded Rugby team in the world I make to excuses for criticising a really poor performance. Fundamental mistakes in handling, lineouts and scrummaging are compounded with the ball continually being kicked to give opponents yards and yards of uncontested possession from which they can run with organised support.
Robshaw is lauded for his work rate and his high number of successful tackles but you only need to tackle when your opponents have possession and since the opponents have possession most of the time it is no wonder he has such a highly successful tackle rate. Even if a tackle is successful I would estimate that only in a few instances does a tackle create a turnover. If you have possession you have attacking options if you don’t have possession you don’t have options you have tackles.
What England lack are clever and imaginative players.
I would argue SL doesn’t really like clever and imaginative players, the ones that play often seem to be there through necessity I.e. Joseph over Barritt.
The way to have beaten Ireland would have been with pace. England should never have played Goode (simply not good enough at international level) & nor is Nowell. SL should play Christian Wade ASAP giving him pace on both wings with May on other. SL can’t afford to think defensively in the first place (NZ don’t) only offensively. No solution found yet at flanker as they are too slow/no line breakers (is Croft over the hill or should he be played at outset?) Too much ball was kicked away (the amount of times the back three should have run it back and yes risked I a bit)