No host nation has ever failed to make it out of their pool at a Rugby World Cup. That is the magnitude of the task facing England this Saturday, after their crushing defeat to Wales in the second round.
Standing in the way are a Wallaby side that have won plenty of plaudits this year, storming to the Rugby Championship title before opening their World Cup campaign with wins over Uruguay and Fiji.
How they would love to take home the mantle of spoilers-in-chief at England’s World Cup party. All the pressure is on the hosts this weekend, and Australia will relish that.
ENGLAND
The headlines have all been about the return of Jonathan Joseph in the centres. England were badly lacking any form of guile in their midfield against Wales, and while Joseph has that in spades, he will be targeted by the Australian defence as the only creative outlet in their midfield. Expect Michael Hooper to follow him around like a dog with a bone.
Ben Morgan starts in the back-row and will be hoping to recreate one of his best performances in an England shirt, last autumn against the Wallabies when he bagged a brace. Joe Launchbury adds bulk and work-rate in the engine room as the crocked Courtney Lawes sits this one out.
This England side is facing a level of scrutiny that has eclipsed any kind of pressure they have been under before. How they respond will be a mark of not only the players but the management’s cojones – Lancaster has come in for as much criticism as any of the men on the pitch in the wake of the Wales loss.
If England can compete at the set-piece – and given the way that has been going recently, it is a big if – then they simply have to get the ball into the hands of the back three more often. They are the most dangerous part of this team and it will not be enough against a potent Australia team to simply kick themselves into a lead and sit back and defend. If an injury-ridden, dilapidated Welsh team can pick them apart in that situation, this Wallaby side will have no trouble at all.
One to watch: Ben Youngs
That Youngs the younger was passed fit to play in this game was arguably more important than the return of Joseph. His exit was the smoking gun for everything falling apart against Wales; there was a noticeable drop in intensity from England. When he plays with Farrell, he arguably fills the role of playmaker – sniping around the fringes, pulling defenders in, before either hitting someone running a hard line into the ensuing gap, or spinning it behind to the back-line. Youngs will play a crucial role in keeping the mobile Australian back-row honest – if he can distract them enough, there will be more space out wide for the likes of Joseph and the back three.
AUSTRALIA
Australia return to the line-up that beat Fiji in the opening round, which means David Pocock and Michael Hooper team up in the back-row once again. The disappointingly-named Pooper or Hoopcock combo has won many admirers for the tenacity it gives the Wallabies at the breakdown, and this is surely an area that they will target given how comprehensively England lost that battle against the Welsh.
The half-backs are potentially an area where the Wallabies look weak. Will Genia and Bernard Foley are both fine players, but neither have really been hitting their best form recently. Given that they do not play together week in week out at club level, while Nick Phipps (who plays with Foley at the Waratahs) sits on the bench and Quade Cooper (who does likewise with Genia at the Reds) isn’t even in the squad, it is a somewhat surprising selection.
The traditional Wallaby scrum wobbles seem to have dissipated recently, and under the tutelage of Mario Ledesma they finally have a set piece that does justice to their talent elsewhere in the team. Stephen Moore is a fine leader and Sekope Kepu is a brilliantly mobile prop with a step that Nehe Milner-Skudder wouldn’t turn his nose up at.
One to watch: Scott Fardy
Michael Cheika said this week that Scott Fardy grows his beard purely so people will give him attention – and it is a fair point. Literally all the talk is of Michael Hooper and David Pocock, but in many ways the quieter Fardy is every bit as important. Given that the two fetchers are reasonably short (relative to other back row giants), Fardy’s greatest value comes at the lineout, where he leaps like the proverbial salmon and is Rob Simmons’ right hand man. He also does a lot of that fabled ‘unseen work’, which you actually quite clearly can see – namely smashing rucks and making tackles. Every team needs its grafter (or if you’re England, you need loads of them) and Fardy fills that crucial role for Australia.
PREDICTION
This is every bit as difficult to call as last weekend’s game against Wales. It will all hinge upon how England deal with this weight of responsibility – one that is markedly heavier than any England side, let alone this one, has carried for some time. They came into this tournament with everyone expecting them to qualify from the pool, even though it is such a tough one, so to be knocked out this early would be so much more than just a disappointment.
And for all this side’s obvious failings against Wales, I actually think they have enough grit and determination in them to deal with it. They know what a loss would mean.
Much will hinge on the referee’s interpretation at the breakdown. If Poite follows the lead of Garces and goes whistle-happy, England must be smarter than against Wales and simply leave it alone. Fan out, and trust their defensive structures. If he allows a contest, there will only be one winner, and they won’t be wearing white.
England did not play badly against Wales, they simply made poor decisions and let indiscipline get the better of them. Those are both problems that can easily be fixed within a week. With Joseph back in the team and the back three hopefully seeing more ball, there’s enough life in them to escape from this pool yet. England by 5.
By Jamie Hosie
Follow Jamie on Twitter: @jhosie43
Photo by: Patrick Khachfe / Onside Images
Ossies by 17
Yes a very difficult call,however I do agree that Australia are vulnerable at 9 and 10! Break down obviously crucial and of course the 90000 cheering on England may just get them over the line!
England need to play like they did in the 6N in Cardiff and be as disciplined as they were in the warm up against Ireland.
This Australia side aren’t mugs though. They have experience and quality in spades and a forward pack more than capable of beating England’s.
In high pressure situations England seem to suffer. Cardiff two years ago, Dublin this year and last week against Wales. Win this week and England are through. Lose and England are out. This is knockout rugby now.
I just fear and feel, that the pressure and Australia will be too much.
Ben Youngs is also good at telling the pack to stop messing around. He might be a bit annoying but he usually plays with the type of intelligence England often seem to lack at this level.
Reasons to be confident
– England have not lost to Australia at a RWC since 1991!
– It’s the last chance! No safety net of one more decisive game to play – expecting a big reaction from last week.
– No Alex Goode
– Barritt is back in his least worst position
– Youngs, JJ and Morgan are fit (we hope)
– No Cooper – OK he’s hit or miss but I’m not upset about not facing him
Reasons to be not so confident
– Pocock and Hooper – to be collectively known as Pooper
– Cheika
– Ledesma and the resurgent Wallaby scrum
– Leadership and (in)experience can we cope under the pressure?
England to win, Aus to get a losing BP. 3 teams into to final week with both spots up grabs and a losing BP not being enough for Wales.
Matt you left out Folau from the reasons not to be confident
Despite wanting England to qualify, I don’t see it happening. I reckon they will get a losing bonus point though. Aus by 3.
Discipline will be key, and England wont get the ref on side
if I’m being very cynical, I could see England getting the rub from the ref. Make no mistake, England exiting at the group stage will be a disaster for the tournamount. Viewing figures will plummet and that will surely have an effect on revenue. Someone from World Rugby has a word in Poite’s ear. Nothing obvious mind.
I hope not. Whether we succeed or fail, it shoud be entirely down to what we do on the pitch. England tend to perform when written off, so I don’t see this as forgone conclusion – but way too close to call. Wish Slade and Care were on the bench, and pray that both JJ and Ben Youngs can last the full 80. I think Burgess could do some damage in the last 15 mins. I just hope Barritt comes off though.
I honestly cannot see any merit whatsoever in the view that England as hosts must stay in it ‘for the good of the tournament’ but I suspect that is exactly how it will turn out tomorrow.
If they are no good then they must go out, simple as that. If they are better than OZ as in 2007 then Oz should lose.
Losing to a better team on the day is what the game is about.
But ‘giving’ a team the win as Endv Wales 1/4 final in 2003, in South Africa in the semi v France and final v ABs in 1995 and in the final in 2011 just devalues the whole game and the way the scrum was ref’d in the 2003 final where the ref did all he could to keep Aus in the game.
Too often refs bottle it under pressure from the powers that be, the home fans (Biaritz V Ospreys 1/4 final and a certain Irish ref) , we see the intimidation of the ref that certain players are too willing to show (Harltey, Dallaglio, Johnson, Healey, Back, Cockerill come to mind straight away) and from the mistaken belief by too many refs that if the underdog is winning…..then they must be cheating so I will penalise them.
Meanwhile in the pro12 we see Irish refs give incredible decisions to favour Irish sides.
We’ve seen it already in the 2015 RWC.
Look at the penalty awarded to England at the end of last week. Reverse tv angle clearly showed SW won the ball fair and square..the ref gave it the other way and the TWO did not even make a comment or tell him to look at it again.
Had England scored Wales would be facing an exit as they won’t beat Aus in 8 days and an injustice would have been done.
And boy do I love to go on about an injustice….the longer the time elapsed between the injustice and the present…..the more I enjoy going on about it.
Come on Oz……Waltz for Matilda.
England…..go fluffy up there and fluffy down there (as Bobby Robson, the best England football manager since the 1966 win, said at the Italia 90 tournament)
Enoch, on that Warbs pen – wanted to mention it as havn’t so far.
Agree it shouldn’t have been a pen but injustice is strong. AWJ makes the tackle, Warbs arriving as player is going down. Slightly before the player finishes going down Warbs hands touch the players back then move to the ball. In the blink of an eye it could be said to look like Warbs helped finish the tackle. Even with a replay it could be argued that it looks like it (it would be wrong, but not through bias, through interpretation). So honestly, as gutted as I was by that pen being awarded nobody could accuse the ref of bias there. It was a tough, tough one to call and the ref just got it wrong.
What everyone seems to be forgetting is that if we beat Aus there is a very good chance they are going out. There may be more pressure on us but don’t overlook how important this game is to them either.
It’s not last chance saloon for them though. If England win they are most likely going to finish top of the group and then Aus vs Wales becomes a shootout for second place, barring any 4 try Bonus points in that game. Obviously Aus will be fired up though, it’s England at Twickenham.
erm if England win, Aus are shooting for 2nd place, Wales would be shooting for First :p
Ah yes you’re right, too many permutations going on in my mind.
The group has been anything but boring just imagine they tie :p
Aus by 8. This isn’t the team England have beaten in end of season jollies. This isn’t the team rife with internal strife and with a clueless coach widely derided by his own team. This isn’t the team decimated with key injuries. This is the team that just won the rugby championship, a team who’s common problem has been that they have no front row but they’ve fixed that. A team that isn’t shorn of it’s top players who went to Toulon – they’ve fixed that. A team that now has a strong coach to coral the exciting but sometimes wayward talents.
England cacked themselves under the pressure last week – Mike Brown lost his rag, Robshaw lost his nerve and Barrit lost his compass. The pressure is even greater this week. However, England will, as they always do, play above themselves and will cause problems for Aus. I just think that eventually the class of the superior XV will show through and a score diff of 8 is there because I think Aus will make enough hay in the backs to run in some tries in the 2nd half.
This is a prediction, I’m not writing England off.
Typical Brighty, always writing England off…
Seriously though, how often does rugby come down to one side wanting it more. I would suggest that England must want this more than Australia. But can they hold it together
Interestingly, all the Guardian writers have plumped for an England victory
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/oct/02/england-australia-rugby-world-cup-predictions
I am just praying that they’re right!
I think the very first tip says why “As host nation England simply cannot contemplate defeat” – it’s not just the host nation, it’s everyone assuming that at some point the host nation will pull this out of the fire because … well, just because that’s the narrative. I think the motivational power of this is over estimated as it can’t make Eng a better team than Aus.
(again, an opinion etc. Not aimed at you Pablito, I’m just waiting for the first person to accuse me of dismissing Eng, etc.)
I don’t think its an assumption so much as a sincere hope!
And motivation can move a team to playing above themselves – witness Japan’s victory over SA .
And this Aus team has weakenesses – we still don’t know what will happen in the scrum, their lineout has been iffy, Genia & Foley are not a settled partnership, Foley’s kicking is not of the highest level, Kuridrani and Moore are not in the best form and Horne, whilst solid, is not going to set the world alight.
God knows if that will be enough for us to beat them but we live in hope!
(of course ‘must-win’ games can also have a paralysing effect on teams, but I’m not thinking about that…)
Also, and now I am really grasping at straws, the last time Robshaw was vilified for his decision-making and a lost game that England should have won, the team responded by beating the All Blacks and Robshaw personally was immense
Please, please let that happen again
I’m assuming it but I am sincerely not hoping for it! I’m not English (shock!) so I can only say that from the outside the common conversation goes like “yes, better Aus team … Pocok … Hooper … Folau … lines … Giteau … backs … quality … fixed the scrum … Chieka … Barrit … paper bags … BUT … Eng have a way of winning these games regularly …”.
As for the time you beat the ABs – yes, but – Manu Tuilagi. (oh, and of course, norowhineyvirus ;-)).
I think Japan caught SA napping and mugged them – Japan were brilliant, but SA played the game Japan wanted (see Wal v Fiji 07). So are you suggesting Aus might play into English hands and try and play a forward oriented scrumfest? :-)
That is my sincerest wish Brighty.
Am not sure I rate Giteau quite as much as others. I’d be more worried if Toomua was playing there. Bit wtf do I know?
I love ‘norowhineyvirus’ and may well steal it and pretend I came up with it
Reading the “why” is quite telling… we have
Because they are better than they have performed – that is just hope over evidence. Surely if they are better they would perform better or they aren’t a great combination
Because the tournament needs them – big tournaments need big shocks, England going out is a shock, people aren’t going to stick prebought tickets in a drawer so money loss is irrelevant as tickets are sold. Although may whisper a bit in the ref’s ear, but that would be minor swing as otherwise it brings the game into disrepute which is a worse outcome than England exiting.
Because kicking matters? I’m pretty sure Aus lads can kick too lol that was just weird.
Because the expectation is on them? Wasn’t it on them during the Eng/Wales game, they didn’t rise to that occasional so seems more like part a – can they?
At the end of the day it’s the same as the Eng/Wales game, 50/50 both can win on the day. The only swinging factor I can see is success and as has been said, Aus have success, England have been without a taste for a long time.
Bringing the game into disrepute didn’t matter in the 2011 final!
I think what people are alluding to with the damage to the tournament is all the Non rugby people or those with a passing interest who are watching because it’s on and England are playing. I think I read the closing minutes of eng wal had 49% of the total tv audience for that point. Think it will be a struggle getting that without England in the tourney.
Of course this shouldn’t And won’t matter. It will come down to the best team.
I think we’ll do it by three, this is based on hope and the fact too many careers are on the line for us not to perform
I would like England to win & then Wales to beat Aus, so I wont be disappointed if England win, I’m just not liking some of the attitude of English players (notably brown & robshaw) I think a captain is needed that can tame Brown cos his strops don’t help get a ref on side and Robshaw isn’t great at it either :/
Most worrying point from this whole article. England have a team filled with grafters, not world beaters. If Farrell and his kicking and tackling are so important stick him in the six shirt? We wouldn’t really lose anything carrying wise.
Slade, what can I even say. Our best play maker outside George Ford doesn’t even get a sniff in a serious game. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, there’s no point having a back three that are in white hot form if they never touch the ball. Farrell doesn’t get it to them and neither does Brad. In fact, I’m pretty sure our back three have the opposition kickers to thank for any possession they get to be involved with.
Even after Wales beat England, I still can’t see them going through. I think this could be a comfortable win for England, and Australia beating Wales on the deciding day. This is all very interesting for the Group B teams as they will play one of these, however, ironically I would that in the next round England and Australia are the most likely to be beaten. I think if Wales get through to the QF’S, then they are safe. Another key thing that has been looked over was the England Vs Wales match itself. What was described as an epic only seemed so because of the great atmosphere. In reality it looked like two undisciplined, scrappy and mediocre teams battling it out, and only winning by kicks. There were only two major attacks in the whole game and they were the two tries scored (both of which were very good), but despite Wale’s bravery and the result, overall England were the better team and should’ve won. Both teams had bad handling errors and were quite scrappy. I see both of them struggling either in the last group games or in the QF’S. Overall, there isn’t that much to say about this match for me, it is more about when Wales play Australia. In this game I would say England by about 10. In the end, I think England will top the group, with Australia running up. The England vs Wales match shows how vulnerable the big teams can be, and I think they will really have to watch out in the QF’S.
After all of that, to sum up, ENGLAND BY 10.
Struggling to follow your thinking here Glen.
Last Sat was a match between “two mediocre teams” but one of them is still good enough to beat the SH champs by 10 pts tomorrow, in fact to claim a “comfortable” win? Then to go further the team that beat Eng will be beaten easily by the team that Eng beat tomorrow? A cynic would say you have a slight bias here….
In addition the team you think is least likely to qualify, Wales, who I assume by extension you judge to be of the lowest quality of the 3 is the most likely to go through the QFs if they qualify?
As for that match – it was an epic of knockout rugby. Tight knock games in WCs are always like this. Look at last WCs finals and semi finals.
“England were the better team and should’ve won…” Oh jeez, this sad old chestnut. Rugby is a game where the winner is decided by who scores the most points over 80 mins. If the better team cannot stop the opposite from scoring more points than them then they are not the better team. It does not matter if they were ahead for 79 minutes and 59 seconds. If after 80 they have scored less then they are not the better team over the course of the match, they were simply able to score more points inside some arbitrary period of time which isn’t the match defining time limit of 80 mins. So to be simple, better team == team that won.
In addition, if your team has been beaten by another then to use the “but the better team lost” is massively churlish, childish even (I say this having no idea if you are English or not, so it’s just a general statement of how I think a loser best conducts themselves).
“Only winning by kicks” – I never understand this. Rugby is a game with 4 methods of scoring (tries, cons, drops, pens). I have no interest in rating one over the others other than loving tries as they give my team more points. I have little time for try BPs as to me they pander to a lazy TV audience. If someone doesn’t like the fact that there are kicks *and* tries as equally valid ways of scoring then go and watch rugby league for a lot less kicks. Rugby Union is a game that comes in many, many shapes and the multiple scoring opps, each excellent in their own way, are a crucial part of it for me.
So, Brighty – you believe that Japan are a better rugby team than South Africa?
Not just a well drilled team that caught an overconfident team cold, but a better team
If that’s your view, then I’d put it to you that you are talking a load of old bollocks.
We’ve mentioned the eng victory over NZ on another thread. Did that make England a better team than New Zealand? Of course it didn’t and later results bore that out.
Did Italy or Fiji’s victory over Wales in 2007 make them either of them a better team than Wales? Of course not
A team can win a one off match against the odds and despite being on the back foot for most of the game. It does not make them the better team. This also explains the view of most neutral observers that what Wales did to England was most accurately described as ‘daylight robbery’
So Pablito, you are equating Wales beating Eng with Japan beating SA? If you are then frankly you are talking bollux. Last Sat wasn’t the underdog pluckily overcoming the better team, it was too well matched teams with the superior quality of one coming through in the end – better fitness, better composure under pressure and better execution of core skills when exhaustion was setting in for the last quarter.
I love this fallacy that a better team is the one in the lead for the larger portion of the match. Or this out date English notion that winning the scrums means you are winning the match. Or the even better one that if it wasn’t for the penalties Eng would have been out of sight – let’s take all the pens out of it and it would have been 7-7 at the end, but no, expect there will be some reason given as to why the English pens were more worthy.
Your contention seems to be that Eng are/were the better team and hence that backs up why they will beat Aus but Wal won’t (which is the pt of Glen’s that I am struggling with). I also helpfully had this explained to me by a few English fans in the q for drinks at the Fiji game. England are the better team. Not just on Sat, they are just better than Wales and hence they will beat Aus but Wales will not. Amazing really considering we won a match in which we were the worst team going in and still the worst team coming out. Personally if my team were that amazing I’d expect them to win the important matches like that – or are you suggesting that Engs mindset was similar to SA, the “it’s only Wales” thoughts that saw SA just skip over loads of points scoring chances?
Let me know the criteria for someone acknowledging they were beaten by a better team. Personally I do think that on the day Eng beat NZ they were the better team and deserve the plaudits for being so. I find it sickening, strong words I know, this constant desire by some to cheapen an opposition victory. Don’t play the matches if you’re going to dream up all sorts of qualifiers as to the satisfaction of the result. In my day if we got beat we shook hands, said well played, you beat us, and moved on. We never, ever let the opposition even get a whiff of any possible idea that we thought we were better – because we had had our chance to prove it and we blew it, so it wasn’t true.
One of the plus sides of having my heart ripped out by this turgid and myopic coaching team is that I get to look in these threads with a more detached perspective.
Your capacity Brighty to find a sleight against Wales is incredible. That the victory last week was truly outstanding does not necessarily mean that one side was not poor or the winning side were superior. Sometimes a side wants it more and the side that sub conciously believes they ought to win get tight and make poor decisions.
Just enjoy an amazing victory don’t be so sensitive about other’s interpretation. At least no one is blaming the ref or saying that England had food poisoning or the novo virus!
It depends what you view as a sleight Benjit. I think I’ve been pretty consistent that one of the things I detest the most is an evaluation of the worth of a victory by the losers. I stated time and one again that I hated the way some Kiwis went on about the norovirus. If you’re not fit enough to play then say it up front, don’t wait to see if you lose and then say it doesn’t count as a proper win.
Obviously all of this “England lost it” rhetoric, that is still being repeated, doesn’t dimish my joy at us getting to a quarter final but I do feel the need to call it out. Losers need to just put up, not point out the victors all the reasons they won they match that in their opinion are nothing to do with the quality of the victors. I’ll always call out sore losers – whether it is about refs, decisions, etc.
The things you list, wanting it more, not letting expectations to win change tactics, are part of what makes one team better to me.
Should count to 10….
That was an epic rant. I’ll try and contextualise – imagine your team winning one of the most epic and most looked forward to matches with their old rivals ever. Rivals with whom the last decade has seen a constant to and fro of victories and defeats – well matched teams. Then imagine hearing the constant post match narrative that even though you won, my oh my you were second best. It’s an empty victory based on chance and/or charity from the opposition. You were gifted it. Your old rival will jog on, comfortable in the knowledge that you might have scrabbled a few more pts than them, but we all know who is the real better team. Compound that with hearing it every time you win (and/or it was all down to Steve Walsh) and that every time you win a Grand Slam it was a “poor quality year”. Not from everyone but from a large enough group that it’s a constant message.
I don’t say this to change anyone’s mind about who was the better team on that night, your mind is made up. I say it to try and explain why this might come across as quite antagonistic and trigger overlong rants.
I think people should give up ever using the phrase “better team”! England were, for instance, definitely the better team in the scrum… and for people who have the mindset scrum = game, then England were the better team! But for the rest of us, who consider the better team the one which scores more points, then Wales were better… although not by much
I have to join brighty in some confusion here..
Wales least likely to get out of group, yet most likely to survive QF’s if they do?
So the team least likely to qualify is the one with 3 wins in 3 games? As opposed to England who have 1 out of 2? Granted we could get ahead of ourselves and say 2/3 since the Uruguay is pretty much a given…
Also heard a lot of the “wales & aus didn’t pick up the bonus point yet England have 2” … England lost a game and got 1 bonus point for it… Wales won the game and took 4pts, so let’s take a look… 2 bonus points.. (or even 3)… compared to 1 win… i’ll take the win thank you lol
The only thing in the way of Wales qualifying is Australia, if they beat England – we qualify, if they lose to us – we qualify. The two teams most likely to qualify are Australia & Wales – why? because they haven’t lost yet.
oh, i should have said foley by 17 not oz !!
could’nt have been further out!
Blighty, to better summarise my thoughts I am saying that during the England Vs Wales match both teams performed quite poorly compared to their usual standards. I am also saying that these teams (Especially England) seem quite nervous when they play. I think after that upset, England should be confident and strong against Australia, which is why I back them to win. However I think that the Wales match has shown weakness which is why I think that England and Australia as the better teams my struggle in the QF’S and have much less pressure on them than Wales.
So Glen – both teams were poor but Eng will overcome the reasons for their poor display (nervousness) but Wales can’t overcome whatever reasons you say they are weak? So overall Eng are a better team than Wales? If I have interpreted that correctly then with obvious sarcasm I say thanks for clarifying for us Welsh fans that we are the weaker team of the three.
I would generally have to agree with Glen here. There is obvious weakness in the English and Australian squads and both of them could underperform if the pressure gets to them. I take it this is why you believe they may have issues in the Quarter Finals should they get there?
In the match overall, to be honest I can see both a lively, exciting match and a low-scoring, boring match. I can’t really see England going out of their home world cup though, so that is why I would back them to win here in the region of 5-15 points.
We are in a lose lose situation. We win Lancaster will keep his job and the rfu will sing praise when Lancaster has failed to address so many problems. We lose we face great humiliation. imo we might understand how the wallabies felt when wilkinson made that drop goal in 03 rwc.
And their fans
Same comments as last week, but substitute Aus for Wales. Aus have the better team, but we are at home. Makes it too close to call. Something, like last week will be the difference – just don’t know what it is yet or who it will favour. Have gone England by 2 purely on the basis of national bias once again. Hope I’m right this time!
This group is so epic. Wales up to their best ranking ever achieved and on three from three with possibly the best performance of the tourney so far (maybe Japan/SA topping it) will be staring down the exact same barrel England currently are should the men in white win tomorrow.
Russian roulette rugby.
Please don’t let England win. We have been not just horrible but useless. Are the lads being taught how to play like this or are they making it up as they go along? We need to lose so England can finally begin the conversation on how to play the modern game properly and start winning consistently. Only a knock out now will do this. If we win we will kid ourselves that all the rubbish before was OK. Aussies should be able to handle this England team. BY AT Least 5.
Brit – can’t understand your point of view. I don’t agree with some of what SL has done, but I still WANT us to win tomorrow.
As fan’s we all want our team win win but what he says does make sense, Winning teams don’t chance much, losing teams reinvent themselves. England could use some reinvention and then they could be an amazing team. It just feels somewhat lacklustre considering what they are capable off. So a loss, may end up to be a win.
I’ll let you in on a secret. In the 2006 AIs I was secretly pleased when Argentina beat us as I knew the useless Robinson would be sacked.
I do hope though that if England do progress the cracks are not papered over. Post wc, the RFU should say to Stu on plain terms that his position is under threat if we don’t win the 6n. Another runner up spot will not do. In fact I’d be as bold as to demand a GS to show some sign of progress.
Ok I’m calling it now; Bonus point win for England. You heard it here first. Barritt and Burgess to get a brace each. Despair will turn to hyperbole, panic will be replaced by arrogance.
Been on the sauce a bit early Benjit!Everyone without exception forecasts a very close match.I fear there is a chance Oz might ultimately cruise because of their super backs who play a different game to us and their back row giving them quick ball.I just hope our desparation and intensity shuts them down.A repeat of 2012 v AB’s would be heaven
Ha ha. No just amused how “certain” many Welsh fans are at an England loss, when to me this match is too close to call, so thought I’d indulge in some misplaced hyperbole. But hey if it happened I’d look like a genius!
TBH I’d take the loss if I thought Lancaster would do a Keegan and walk after this game!
The one flaw in that scenario is that Keegan was a lot more honest about his limitations.
England by 30,Beale to punch the ref,Rolf Harris to sing the Aussie anthem and BB to score after a scorching 60 metre sprint!
THIS is what pressure can do to a person.
I’d LOVE IT IF WE DID THAT!
Surprisingly, as a Scotland fan I would be pretty disappointed to see England go out of their home World Cup.
Would you be disappointed at them going out in the quarters against Scotland?
Obviously not. I just think it could be catastrophic for Rugby if England failed to progress from the group stage in their home world cup. The Quarter Finals are now very hard to predict after England’s loss to Wales and South Africa’s defeat to Japan. The result of today’s matches will be very interesting and will be a huge indicator to how the knockout stages will happen.
If Samoa beat Japan today, and South Africa beat Scotland, we still won’t know who will go through in Group B as well as the fact we probably won’t know who goes through in Group A.
Nice to see Ross that someone else gets the bigger picture. England don’t have a right to progress. The tournament will not be any the lesser rugby wise. But the tournament will be diminished to some extent if the host goes out in the group stage.
Tbh I don’t blame the Welsh for wanting England to lose as it guarantees their progression and they don’t have to worry about a tricky match against the Aussies.
I must admit i’m torn, I back Wales everytime and will back them against the Aussies which would guarantee our progression. I also wanted England/Wales both to go through but at the same time guaranteeing that Wales progress is a bonus, so I’m torn. I guess at the end of it I’d just love a great game and can enjoy it regardless of the winner.
If Aussies win, any win will do, If England win I want them to deny Australia a losing bonus point. (As that’ll open up progress if we lose with a try bonus & losing bonus point)
So if England lose due to losing the breakdown battle with Pocock and Hooper, what’s the betting the headlines will be “Party Pooper”?
Given the deep satisfaction the Aussies get from stuffing the Poms they will be clear this is the chance of total humiliation by ejecting us from our own world cup.In this sense this is as big as 2003 for both teams.I have the privelege of being there at this massive massive game.Crapping myself in fear
If we start by kicking long to Folau,I will personally string SL up by his tackle from the HQ floodlights. All the English weaknesess must be kept to a minimum tonight,daft pens, stupid decisions, Burgess kicking, slow to the b/down and getting the numbers committed to it right, “computer says” substitutions,etc. If we can get all this right and then outscore the Aussies,result!
Almost kickoff it’s gonna be close I think we can all see that… Few things to look for.
1) track the odds on Lancaster losing his job, even money on this year on Lad.
2) if England try to play Aussie at their own game they will lose.
3) if either team aim for a try bonus point they will throw away a lead. secure the win continually.
4) roll on knockouts when teams protect their leads and we aren’t placating to people who only want to see tries.
5) someday someone will realise it’s hard to defend a drop goal and just have 3 backs that are masters at it, 3pts every time they get possession in the opposition half lol
at last Marler has been found out for not scrummaging straight , if the ref picked it up v Wales , Wales would and should have had about 3-5 more penalties , , lucky england only lost by 3 v Wales imo , Biggar dont miss many ,…bye bye England lol!
Wow half time and we’re f*cked. We’ll done RFU.
like taking candy off a baby for the ozzies , pokock and rest of the oz back row are superb , i think the ozzies will win the WC , And they will deserve it comin top of the hardest group ….whats that guys ? ….nothin to say ? ………only banter when your winning ? !
This is painful, as expected.
even your owns fans are leaving with 5 mis to go ,…so loyal !,……….swing LOOOW
ref giving england pens for what ? , been told to keep them in the competition incase the crowds fall , as i say it wigglesworth offside but its ok ,…hes english ! , becoming a joke in the rugby world , now looking like a fiasco !
Congratulations ! first team out as holders ,…………LOVE IT ! Bye bye !
ok….i was 3 pts out in my prediction , boo hoo
englands biggest problem wa and usually is picking such a big pack, too heavy and too slow , well done oz , i dont expect wales to beat you either , but suspect you’ll rest a few , just hoping that will make a difference , , see u english boys in the 6N , end of your road for now ,…bye god bless , oh , nearly forgot, god is on our side , i wonder who you will be cheering at twickers , if you thought wales would be going out the rfu would have played it in Cardiff !, no pity for you sorry , you got what you desrerve , reap what you sow !
If SL isn’t handing in his resignation right now then he must be rob Andrews brother or something. That was an utter embarrassment, 4 years of preparation and we play JJ on wing and BB and FArrell in centre!! Great planning SL!! This just proves his complete lack of ability as a top level coach. I am absolutely livid as an England fan and, whilst the majority of team were awful, entirely lay the blame for officially the most embarrassing campaign in the history of rugby at SL and teams door.
P.s. Osiboy you are the reason people dislike other nations – try to show a little class or you may get labelled as arrogant!
Also this commentary about our yellow card for Farrell, what the hell was the Hooper on Brown one then! I know I am biased but I really felt decisions went against England today.
Just checking are you on about clearing the ruck without hands in first half? If so I agree that it was a pen/yellow but brown getting up and trying to punch the guy should of been yellow/red… Well yellow cos he can’t punch and missed the target
Well I predicted 5 on here glad I said 11-20 on ladbrokes even if it was only a £5 bet will pay for my beer in the QF.
Glad Wales are through but too touch on England a little. History will say Aus put you out but Wales put ya on the ropes. This group was set to screw a top tier nation and as soon as it was announced people wrote Wales of so glad to prove that wrong. Replace Lancaster and robshaw and you’ll get it next time
Yes Michael that was the one, thought that was quite an easy yellow for Ref – you might be right about Brown but I just don’t see how that was just a penalty and Farrell was a yellow? In my eyes Hooper was much worse.
Yeah could & prolly should of been a yellow with the rules. Maybe it was a case of “let’s move on” because of Browns reaction, if we were to follow “letter of the law” so to speak, Hooper would of got a 10min sin bin, Brown would of been given a Red and a ban, as although his throwing the guy to the ground is generally ok in rugby, he attempted to throw a punch on a grounded player. By ignoring one he doesn’t have to see the replay of the other – if you have it recorded, what how every replay cuts away before Brown throws it.