For me Cip’s omission reps negligence as he ought to have been 1st choice for 2 yrs now (SCW). This is a mindset of flawed thinking as DC is exp & the most (almost only) truly, naturally skilled (former) team member. Ford is vastly over rated & succumbs to pressure too readily.

The Burgess pick it totally illogical. A novice lamb to the wolves if he ever faces the SH.

But what’s done is done & time will tell whose more right I guess.

G’luck this arbo.

Can you blame the England for clinging to the one NZ win in a decade?

Again, you seem to be drilling points I’m agreeing with. MJ’s tenure was ruined him bottling it at WC time. His actual record was ok; although SL’s does shade it.

Selection is never agreeable. Personally SL picked one away from my choice for the 31. I’d have taken Easter over Kruis, just. Burgess is a gamble, but not as huge as is being made out. In reality, he won’t have loads of minutes, any more than SBW will in big games. He was selected because no other 12 offered anything particularly great. So why not take a punt on a guy that exceeds confidence, demands respect and is a hugely professional presence? If there were two genuinely good options for SL at 12, they’d have gone.

I’m quoting the S.Times which parallels lanc’s record with johnno’s. Lanc’s record is as inconsistent as his incoherent selection policy, esp currently… Will Carling & Clive Woodward concur.

You seem to be pulling out stats to support yr belief rather than taking a more objective perspective or overview.

Again it’s no skin off my nose, but I don’t see how yr too subjective views make rational sense… or help England’s cause.

Of course England may win tomorrow… which may be the start of a revival?

Finishing top of the group will be extremely difficult for England. BUT, we have beaten Aus the last two times we’ve played them, same goes for Wales. So why not? At that point we’d play Scotland or Samoa in the 1/4 final. Fair to assume we’d win that? Then Ireland in the semi. Horrible game, but another one where that vital home advantage would likely see us favourites. Obviously followed by the final – toss of a coin at that point.

Don’t get me wrong – I’m aware that is an optimists way of viewing it. But it also hugely plausible based on recent results.

Aus up to 2! Is this to be dismissed for the WC, esp as they’re in England’s grp? Do so @ yr peril methinks.

Ireland who were 2, are now 3, but they got to the penultimate by consistently WINNING! It’s pretty much that simple

Whilst it can be a bit of an up & down game like snakes & ladders, it must boost morale if a team’s on an upward curve going into a WC.

And surely no one would state that they’d RATHER their team were going downwards?!

To state that rankings are misleading is surely, er, slightly misleading.

I think though that England ARE genuine WC contenders. They are second favourites – still – with the Bookies.

It doesn’t mean that they will come second of course. It doesn’t even mean that they’ll escape their Group, but it does mean that the moneymen believe they’re genuine contenders, and often where the money lies, there is also cold logic.

Some bookies are offering as little as 7/2 to Win the WC, which is not particularly good for a tournie where 7 teams could realistically win.

Of interest, 8th favourites are Argentina where you can get 66/1

Well I feel pretty outraged @ Cip’s omission which I regd as inexcusable.

However, England will more likely be contenders if they if they top their grp. No easy task.

I suppose any of the top ranked 1/2 dozen or so could also qualify as contenders & logic doesn’t always apply in this guessing game.

I’m less convinced with England’s record than you though as surely current form matters more.

Hope you’re right in respect of NZ though.

As sais, it can be a funny ol’ game.

For some reason, particularly in the latter stages, WCs have been fairly tight affairs. Likely due to stress, pressure, although this is hard to prove.

Anyway, home advantage will surely(?) help England some & It’ll be interesting to see if the pen count stats back this contention up. In tight games this perceived or real advantage can be important. It could even see them top their grp. This will then give them an ‘easier’ route into the biz end of the tourney & they may well have bedded in their back line midfield & lock pairing by then; which will give them more cohesion.

However, it’s a funny old game (/s) & begs the ? as to whether any of the teams in England’s grp are likely to go through with a clean sheet?

Tomorrow should tell more, for both teams, as neither want to or can really afford another loss. The French game in Paris must be worrying for England though as they didn’t win any of the phases; i.e., @ line out, scrum or in the lose. However, surely they can’t be so poor twice on the bounce – & @ home.

And Ireland have lost a bit of momentum so JS will want (& need?) to put a WC marker down with a ‘W’. His team v Wales may have been a bit short of his best line up & so the damage to morale may be less likely to effect them… & his Twickenham team is pretty strong… but away.

Likely to be pretty intense. In theory Ireland ought to shade it, but that’s what I thought about the Wales game too.

So, tranquilisers @ the ready for tomorrow… & the WC! Both teams have a chance for both.

50/50 this Sat? The WC? Mmmm?

However, why should we not consider ourselves genuine WC contenders?

Ignoring NZ, who are by far and away the best team in the world. Who are better than we are? Any other top tier teams are beatable if we play well, we’ve beaten them all other than SA in the past two years.

So either, no one outside NZ are genuine contenders; or surely England are?

I say all that fully expecting NZ to retain the trophy. If they play at 80% of their best, even then any other side will have to be at 100% to even have half a chance to beating them. Unlikely I think.

England, at home have been very consistent. No thumpings to speak of, and it has not been an easy place to win even for NZ. Are we genuine WC contenders? No. Should we be? Probably and perhaps could have been under a more ruthless and experienced coach. However people are now talking as if we are dead certs to lose to Wales and Australia and go out at the group stages. I don’t doubt that this could happen, but our record at Twickenham over the past 2 years suggests otherwise.

If England pull out a performance against a very handy irish side, people will probably spin 360 the other way. Also foolish.

England are good. Competitive but lack the nous IMO.