Stuart Lancaster has named the England team to play Wales in Cardiff on Friday night. Nick Easter and Danny Cipriani complete their rehabilitations into the England set-up with spots on the bench. Tom Croft joins Nick Easter on the bench and the two will provide second row cover between them, with no specialist lock amongst the replacements.
In the centres, Luther Burrell is selected at inside with Bath’s Jonathan Joseph – the form midfield player in the Aviva Premiership this season – outside him. Ben Youngs and George Ford continue at half-backs, while it is the same back three that took on South Africa, Samoa and Australia in the autumn – Jonny May, Anthony Watson and Mike Brown.
In the pack, James Haskell wins a start on the blindside with captain Chris Robshaw and Billy Vunipola completing the back-row. George Kruis and Dave Attwood provide a powerful locking partnership, while in front of them Dan Cole has proved his fitness to start on the tighthead. He is joined by Dylan Hartley and Joe Marler in the front row.
ENGLAND TEAM TO PLAY WALES:
15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 33 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 6 caps)
12. Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 7 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 11 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 6 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 42 caps)
1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 26 caps)
2. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 61 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 45 caps)
4. David Attwood (Bath Rugby, 16 caps)
5. George Kruis (Saracens, 4 caps)
6. James Haskell (Wasps, 53 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 32 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 12 caps)
Replacements
16. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 17 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 15 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons, 6 caps)
19. Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers, 38 caps)
20. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 47 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 16 caps)
22. Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks, 9 caps)
23. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 16 caps)
Photo by: Patrick Khachfe / Onside Images
101 replies on “Six Nations 2015: England team to play Wales”
If I’d have been picking this side I’d have the exact same 23 – other than Nowell over Twelvetrees.
Assume the logic being that they would rather see Joseph move across to the wing than see May come into 13. Whilst it isn’t ideal I do see the logic.
Without Farrell they lose centre cover so they did need it. Cips covers 15 too.
Whilst everyone will moan about 12T’s being in the squad, there is logic to it.
I think this a shrewd tactical move. If a plan b is needed with a second playmaker then we bring 12t on like SCW used to do with Catt. We may quibble with the personell but the tactic is sound.
Am more worried about the fwds cover. I see England as vulnerable in the line out (due to injuries) and at the breakdown. For that reason I would have been tempted to have Kitchener and Clark but I also appreciate the value of experience. Tough one. A lot of pressure on Robshaw and Haskell. Both need a big match because if we can get quick ball the backs look really dangerous.
Definitely agree – that’s what I was trying to get across with 12T’s in a round about way. Logic behind having that type of option there makes sense, as much as 12T’s selection annoys some poeple.
I’m worried about the lock situation, not necessarily about the forwards. I think at the breakdown, with Cole and Kruis supporting Haskell and Robshaw we should be more than ok. The line out worries me – which is why I think Croft is in. Experience of him and Easter could be vital, and if the line out is an issue then Croft can come in and be a really strength there.
Apart from second row this is arguably a potential first selection anyway?
Haskell could have made it. Centres/wings are arguably great choices.
Definitely agree with that. It is the second row that bothers me though. Under SL the line out has been massive strength of ours (particularly when Hartley plays). I worry we may have trouble here on Friday,
If it’s all going completely tits up in the line out they can bring Croft on.
Not overly concerned about the line-out, as long as DH can hit his targets. Line-out has been a notable weakness for Wales for a while now.
Think the 9/10 pairing is going to be more vital than ever to get this quick young back line firing. If B Youngs and Ford have a good day it could be a really open game.
Good point – one of the best line-out forwards in the world, probably got him the nod over Clarke as back row cover. Though surprised they went for him over Kitchener given his lack of game time.
Arguably it is Brighty. Although I am not sure they would leave Tuilagi out no matter how well Joseph was playing.
One would also expect Corbisiero to start. I guess he is still not considered back to his best (or at least his “previous”).
i wouldn’t leave Joseph out, I’d leave Burrell out. Lancaster said Burrell is there for his gainline presence. Manu at 12 running both carries and dummy runs off first receiver ought to create enough dog legs in the defence for Ford and Joseph to exploit.
Given Manu and JJ are nearly the exact same age and that the combination was tried before in SA 2012, I think it’s the best midfield partnership England have going forward.
Completely agree with that! We saw SL try this before in away in SA so he obviously has confidence in it.
I’d love to see a backline of – Youngs, Ford, May, Tuilagi, JJ, Watson, Brown – at the WC.
Interesting to hear that after the speculation of second string England because of injuries etc etc only thing that worries majority of bloggers is the locks in the forward pack
Really honestly this is a decent English team and no excuses please everyone we are talking RWC year and the strength in depth had allways been there for England a squad of decent players well reported by everyone in media and English club land
that has been a fact spoken about for years it was allways about picking the best 15 taking the field if who is available so lets get on with Wales V England and move on everyone over the river Severn
Not going to apologise for injury free Wales at start of six nations we have had problems in the past as well in previous campaigns however it’s all about the match now so let the game begin gentlemen and stop the negatives
As an Englishman I totally agree; no excuses. Will be a great game.
I agree. No excuses…Unless we lose.
I echo J’s sentiment. No excuses. The only area of concern is our locks, and both Atwood and Kruis are close to first choice, just not necessarily together.
Please don’t blame us for the press coverage, that either win or lose will make huge amounts of the injury list. In fact I expect the injury list to be the main story after the game as much as it was before the game.
Yes Mike, I can see the newspapers and Inverdale now. Lose and it’ll be “but we had 4 million out injured so it doesn’t count…”, Win and it’ll be “and we did that with our 2nd string, we’ll hammer you at full fitness….”. Looking forward to Inverdale spending 1 hour of the buildup talking about England as if they’re not even expected to make a fist of it. Get your retaliation in first has always been his approach.
Seems you’re doing the same. He hasn’t opened his mouth and you’re already responding to him.
Quite. Also, who cares what Inverdale says? Its like worrying over what kind of idiocy Stephen Jones will come out with next
The funny thing is that Inverdale actually looks like a troll (IMO). So you can judge a book by its cover sometimes
Can anyone in the world explain to me what Calum Clark needs to do to get in the team? just 25 and after some turbulent years, for the 2nd year playing great for saints. Him over Haskell any day.
Clark’s time will come, but Haskell has been truly superb this season. On form and experience he deserves this.
Also does Clark have a record for the number of times he has been selected in the EPS but not getting a cap? If the management don’t rate him after being in and around the set up for the best part of 2 years, perhaps they need to look at someone else?
Think you answered your own question there, with “just 25” and “some turbulent years”. While I’ve got no problem with Clark, this is not the game – nor the point in England’s RWC cup development – to bring in more inexperienced players, especially since we’re not really short of talent in the back row.
I know Haskell’s a bit Marmite (mostly hated!) but you can’t deny his work rate at Wasps and he’s earned this.
Think brighty would be on my side if he is around, by saying I don’t care how well Clark plays I don’t want him in my England team
Yep. It’s a stain on the game every time Clarke is allowed to pull on a shirt.
I would certainly agree with that. Unfortunately SL coached him a lot in his younger years, and is prepared to overlook previous indiscretions. For me anybody who hyper-extends another players arm to breaking point is lucky to be playing at any level.
The way Ewers played for the Saxons last week, I would rather have him in the squad than Clarke.
Ewers is a monster. I still have nightmares of him tearing Cardiff apart last year. Unbelievable that he hasn’t had a faster elevation to the EPS.
Totally agreed with this. Ewer was excellent against the Irish
With Clarke, I guess that he took his punishment and everyone should get a chance at rehabilitation. Think he’s been reasonably spotless since he’s been back as well. Still leaves a nasty taste in the mouth though
By all accounts Clark has had some serious councilling to get his head straight. It was horrific, but he shown remorse with his subsequent actions and record. Plus I don’t understand why Clark is singled out whilst those who gouge often escape such censure
And yet another import Brighty, born in Zimbabwe so I’m led to believe!! Lol.
You’re right though he is a monster.
Poor bloke had to flee Zimbabwe as Mugabe nicked their farms. Whole family moved back to England to be with his grand parents. Wouldn’t begrudge him an England shirt.
A solid, experienced front row… JJ getting the nod makes this a pretty lively set of backs, I can see them playing some really exciting stuff, nomatter how ‘simple’ they say their approach is going to be.
Am thinking maybe SL is unsure of his best 9… His selections here seem to change unpredictably with every squad he announces.
I think we all are uncertain of our best choice 9
Care – cant kick
Youngs – can’t pass
Wigglesworth – a tough slow
I have not watched enough of him to have a strong opinion, but should Simpson be in the running? I know he is lightning quick, but does he have a complete game? does he run the pack/game effectively? One to watch is Robson at Gloucester.
I think to say that Wiggy is slow is a bit harsh. He may not have the pace of Care or Simpson, or the flair of Youngs, but his basics are exceptional, and by some margin the best kicker and passer of the bunch.
Definitely think Wiggy does all the basics very well – but not sure his kicking game is much better than Youngs?
Youngs pass let’s him down sometimes but I think he is the most complete 9 we have.
I will admit to a touch of hyperbole
Wiggy is not slow, but he does not threaten the fringes like Danny Care, Rhys Webb, Aaron Smith…. Ben Youngs. Not sure about how fast a tempo he likes to drive. I don’t actually watch that many Sarries games.
Same re Youngs passing not bad, but he can stand up his 10 occasionally, and you don’t get many chances at international level.
All things considered this is actually a very good looking team. After thinking about it I can see the logic of 12T on the bench. But I was thinking with Cips in couldn’t he cover the centre and 10, and potentially 15? Nowell would give us more straight go forward driving play than 12T?
Mako over Corbs is an interesting one. Haven’t seen how Corbs has been playing lately, but Mako offers more in the loose and ball carrying. And whilst Corbs was great with the old scrum set-up, maybe he doesn’t bring the same impact now the laws have changed? I’m no prop, so not sure about this.
Burrell and JJ on paper should be excellent, but still a bit worried about them defensively. If we can get them some good quick ball, we should have no problem going forward. Maybe Haskell is going to be tasked with keeping Dr. Roberts shackled to protect the midfield defence?
The one thing that worries me about this team, is how many key partnerships are relatively untested. Attwood and Kruis, Youngs and Ford have had very little game time together. Burrell and JJ have not played together at all. I may be wrong but I think only the back three of May, Watson and Brown have played more than a half of rugby together for England.
Youngs and Ford have spent a hell of a lot of time playing together through Leicester age grade and even senior rugby – they seemed to be fine in the AI’s so I wouldn’t worry there.
Certainly it is locks and centres that flag up as the issues in this side. JJ is the form centre but Burrell does concern me. Locks I have spoken about a bit above – I do worry here.
Think Wales by 8.
I’d forgotten that Ford had spent so long at Leicester. How much time did they play together at Leicester. From memory Ford only really played one senior season there, and I’m guessing Youngs was probably injured for some period of that?
But you’re right, Attwood and Kruis and Burrell and JJ are the real worries. Particularly the centre partnership. Attwood and Kruis are both very good line out workers and ball carriers!
Of course some of it may work in our favour, as Attwood and Kruis will be relatively unknown to the Wales coaching team compared to the likes of Lawes, Parling etc. The fact that no-one outside the England squad/coaching team have seen Burrell and JJ play together makes them a complete unknown factor!
At the very least Dazza it gives Wales something to think about. I just hope the pack can provide some decent ball, as this is an exciting back line. I really hope they deliver.
Hopefully Wales are now totally over the “crisis stricken injury ravaged England” narrative and realise they have a game on their hands. Big front row. Excellent 2nd row even if not the best in England. A backrow that a lot were clamouring for regardless of injuries.
Ford is constantly labelled as the best footballer in England. Burrel was prob going to start anyway, JJ has been in fine form for Bath. Back 3 is again probably a starting 3 under some coaches.
Narrative has neatly given England a bit of a “nothing to lose” kind of buildup, pressure all on Wales to deliver. Constant focus on noise/roof/Cardiff ensures even more pressure on Wales by implying it’s an extra man so it should be even easier for them.
Proper Wales v Eng 6 nations match. Wales slow starters. I’m worried.
To be fair, the front row, back row, half backs and back three are the exact team I’d pick anyway. In fact, with everyone fit I’d only change 12 and the locks.
No excuses at all.
Still think away in Cardiff we’ll lose. Wales are a top side and at home.
I think the benefit that Wales have Brighty is that a lot of your key pivotal positions have already played a lot together. Roberts and Davies, Webb and Biggar etc etc. Whereas England may have put together a very good looking team, but some of the combinations are untested in a competitive match, let alone away to Wales in Cardiff.
One thing’s for sure, it should be a hell of a game!!
To be fair, he’s the back-up 7 and Lancaster obviously feels that Robshaw is undroppable.
For the life of me I cannot understand why Croft is in the team and Wigglesworth is on the bench. More weird SL selections
Wigglesworth is a very good scrum-half, but he’s a starting scrum-half. If we’re 10 down with 20 mins to play, he’s not going to come on from the bench, up the speed of the game and inspire the rest of the team to a win. People may not like Care, but this is exactly what he can do. And if you don’t like Care, we saw this kind of impact from Simpson in the Saxons game.
The selection of Croft makes me shake my head in disbelief. Here we have a guy who is getting on a bit and has played just 4 full matches in the last 18 months due to injury – in which he played ok but wasn’t exactly tearing the park up.
Even if you believe that at his very best Croft was a starter for England (I don’t but that’s a different argument), how can you possibly justify his selection over a specialist lock who’s been playing well and consistently for some time – eg. Kitchener, Day, etc
Unless Easter is lock cover and Croft back row cover but then that makes even less sense and that way madness lies.
Also, 12Ts why? and don’t give me this 2nd playmaker rot. Cipriani could cover that perfectly well and leave a bench spot for a player who could actually make a difference – Wade or Nowell perhaps
Pablito
Agree re Croft. Leaps like a salmon, runs like the wind, but as you say, unfortunately, he’s spent a huge tract out injured. Some are unlucky? Like Sheridan, injury prone? Also, I think he’s a good ‘un in a side that’s winning, but I wouldn’t bet my house on his holding out a huge hairy backed Saffa back rower @ the white wash. Doesn’t punch his weight in the tight for me.
Likewise agree about GI Joe. ‘we saw this kind of impact from Simpson in the Saxons game’. So why is he being wasted instead of being chucked in to see what he can do. Jet feet, quick hands, decent pass, kicks, full of confidence I think. If he’s going to play, it needs to be now, otherwise…? Groan.
Easter, has exp! Is smart. Apart from that block, when does he do much wrong. Doesn’t panic & has a good, basic grasp of rugby fundamentals I think. To bring him back now tho, is a ‘U’ turn for me in Lancs’ muddled thinking.
Cipriani can do what Ford does +. He’s more exp… & IMO, ‘could actually make a difference’.
Wade I like, but needs tackle, positional coaching in ‘D’… and Above all, the ball in SPACE yesterday. Otherwise, why have a greyhound? He can burn people! Remember Jase Robinson!?
Alas, SL’s not reading this.
Some sanity from Bomber. The roof will be open! Love SCW, but he doesn’t half talk sloblocks sometimes. With so many new faces and combinations, lets make their assimilation to test rugby more relatable. I doubt any of them will have played under a roof. And I imagine verbal communication will be key.
I wrote quite a long comment on this but it seems to have disappeared. Can’t be bothered to do it again but the gist of it was:
Croft. WTF???
Wigglesworth – good player, but a starter. Not going to have the impact from the bench that Care or Simpson would
12T. Is he the new Alex Goode? – included in every England team for no reason that anyone sane can discern
More muddled thinking from SL
12t at least offers a different option or plan B similar to what Catt used to offer. Can understand why maybe you would want someone else filling that role, but tactically it makes some sense.
Croft? I can only assume he has been awesome in training, that being the key criteria for selection!
But Cipriani can cover that role if necessary. Would you not rather have a Nowell or a Wade taking that space on the bench
Would LOVE Wade on the bench, but has Cips ever played 12? We assume most fly halves can play there but always thought Flood was fairly anonymous when he played there.
Pablito, I don’t think that any line-out in the world would not be concerned by Crofts appearance from the bench. He is one of the very best at disrupting line-out ball.
He is also quite a frightening prospect with ball in hand, in the later stages. I think he is a great impact player.
Replace all the times you’ve used ‘is’ above with ‘was’
He has played about 4 full games in the last 18 months and has hardly been pulling trees up in his recent appearances.
I could not care less how he has been in training. I want my lock replacement to be:
.A. A lock
B. Playing regularly at the highest level and performing well consistently
I don’t even want to consider that he might actually have been picked as back row cover. That way madness lies
Personally think all of the decisions make a lot of sense. Line out is probably a slight concern – include our best line out forward on the bench.
Twelvetrees – no one else in the squad covers centre. Plus Benjit’s pretty reasonable tactical explanation below.
Wrigglesworth – I really don’t like this concept that all impact players must be fast. Often subs win games; especially in tight test matches, and especially when they are half backs. Wrigglesworth is the exact calming influence I want on in the last 15 minutes. Allows us to play territory well and either defend a lead properly or play in the right areas of the field. The last person I want coming on with 10 minutes to go if we are 2 points up in Cardiff is Danny Care.
Jacob > Wigglesworth > spot on!
How the hell is Croft our best line-out forward??? He’s barely played for the Tigers for 2 years let alone England.
12T – Cipriani and May can both cover centre in a push.
Wigglesworth – understand your point but he’s a sub. So if we are 2 points up with 10 minutes to go, don’t sub the sh on the field. But if its 20 minutes to go and we’re 10 down, who would you rather see come on – Wigglesworth or Care/Simpson?
Simpson showed just what a change he can make in the Saxons game. He took that game by the scruff of its neck and upped the tempo until the Irish couldn’t live with it. Care can do similar things
I presume you’d have rather seen Myler than Cipriani on the bench as well?
Croft has been one of the best line out forwards in world rugby for a long time. Hasn’t been pulling up trees since he’s come back but the selection makes a lot of sense. Away to Wales I’d rather see him come on than a debutant.
Cipriani can cover centre? For someone who is desperate an out and out lock covers there how can you be ok with Cipraini covering a position he has never actually played at senior level? As I mentioned in a post above – they have obviously decided that they’d rather see Joseph push out to the wing over May at 13.
Massively disagree on Wrigglesworth – he’s more than capable of controlling the pace of a game from 9, his game management is impeccable. I’d love to see Simpson on the bench, I’m a massive fan of his but he is still liable to make the odd strange decision. On Care, he’s a full on liability as far as I can see – really don’t want him playing to be honest. Gifted SA a try in the Autumn, gifted Wasps one in the Heineken about two weeks ago – no chance I’d want to see him coming on.
Forgot to say – why on earth would that mean I want Myler over Cips? Course I want Cips on the bench, he’s the better 10. His game management has improved loads and he offers a gain line threat. Can’t see what areas of a 10’s job Myler beats Cipriani in.
Care can make all the breaks he wants – first and foremost a half back has to get all his basics right (mainly his decision making, kicking and game management as far as I’m concerned). That’s what Cips was getting wrong for a long time. Now he has addressed that, and he still offers all the attacking flair he’s always had, by all means get him in.
Goal kicking…
Almost mentioned this but Cips has improved loads here. Definitely think Myler edges that area though. Worth noting Cips had a 90%+ average in Europe – big game player?
Matt
That’s so unfair, I need BOTH hands to type.
Jacob
And I thought it was just me regds S Jones! How’s he keep his job though? Almost never has anything original to say & as for being ‘controversial’, you can can sub attention seeking (ignored as a child?) & as for ‘influential’, just WHO does/did he influence? Martin Johnson?
Pleased with the XV, is this the first selection of the Lancaster era without a single player out of position?
…. But I would have preferred a lock on the bench ….
Is No 19 a position????
😉
without a single *starting* player out of position …. that should have been.
What style do you recommend England follow?Open it up or keep it tight?
England will play it tight, similar to the Aus game, contestable kicks, pressure the defence into mistakes. However what I like about Ford is that he is a heads up player and less programmed than Farrell (who I also like before I am attacked). Ford can and will execute a tight strategy, but if something is on he’ll go for it, either because we’re chasing the game or Wales are.
Benjit
I agree this is the right way forward.I would like to see plenty of driving mauls from the lineout and plenty of pickups from Billy.Also box kicks from Youngs provided they are shorter and more than 1 guy chases
Pablito
‘Its like worrying over what kind of idiocy Stephen Jones…’. Like Victor Mildrew, ‘I don’t belieeeeve it!’ An Englishman (presumably) openly criticising the ‘influential’ & ‘controversial’ SJ! Happy days. But I do admire the guy. He’s kept his job as a ‘Mills & Boon’ scribe for a 100 yrs now. Should go into politics.
I don’t think I know any English fan that think Stephen Jones has a clue? Normally talks nonsense and radical change as far as I can tell.
Brighty
‘Yep. It’s a stain on the game every time Clarke is allowed to pull on a shirt’.
So, ‘An eye 4 an eye’ etc. Very Old Testament, but @ least you’re consistent me ol’ mucker. Hang on to a grudge 4ever! You must really chewed up inside.
Says the bloke typing with one hand and grinding an axe with the other 😉
Fairly predictable team, but still strong enough. Always a gripe though it seems. This time it’s the locks. Well if a hooker can’t throw the pill into the line out & hit his jumper what do they practice then? How to miss? It’s an orthodox, routine action & that’s it. Chuck it in & catch it! I mean the game is unlikely to revolve around an odd missed line out is it? Their concern ought to be about winning the breakdown & when they’ve got the ball, to score tries with it. When they haven’t, stop Wales from scoring. England will likely, if Stuart Barnes opinion is anything to go by, use Ford to kick the lard again. However, IMO, they will need to show more than that as they are AWAY & the penalty count is unlikely to favour them by over 2 to 1 this around. I just hope they don’t wait to throw the kitchen sink until/if they go behind. Gatland really needs a win as much as Lancaster does & I don’t think his team’ll kick too much possession away. They, like England, need to win the breakdown @ all costs, altho it will interesting to see how thier scrum goes without Jones (NOT from the ST!). Might be an issue? We’ll see. Still, like to have seen Matt Mullen in there as well as Simpson @ 1/2. Also are Croft & esp Easter likely to go tits up? Game on, stress on. Still W by 6… I think.
Interesting lack of respect for the line out. Victor Matfield would be screaming at this post! Personally think it’s absolutely vital in test rugby but for Englands sake on friday I hope you are somehow right. Also – line outs are really nowhere near as easy as you make them out to be, they are extremely complex to get right.
Also strange that you criticise England/Wales or anyone for kicking the ball away, yet NZ (I think we can all agree they are the best side in the world) kick the ball away more than any other team in world rugby. Ireland in the Autumn, who I think we can all agree were brilliant, based their whole game around kicking the ball well and playing in the right areas of the pitch, defending well and executing scores from turnover ball. Very similar to NZ’s gameplan actually.
Why would Wales or England not want to play in a similar way to that? Seems to win test matches from what I can see.
A lot resting on Billy V here.He has to make the Welsh suffer from minute one. No dropping off either his game or the ball! I’m glad Easter is on the bench.
Regarding the line out Christian Day can’t have done enough in training to convince SL or surely he would be in there? I share the surprise of others that Croft has been selected after such a protracted injury/rehab period.
Haskell over Wood,good call.Now let’s hope that motormouth can reproduce his club form. If he can then England should be flying in the forwards.
Burrell/Joseph? We’ll all just have to wait and see if they have had sufficient time to gell.If they do spark off one another they could be an explosive combination. My concern is their shared lack of ability kicking wise.That puts an awful lot of pressure on Georgey boy.
If the welsh stifle him England are going to have to try and run everything which does make you wonder what the game plan is.If it goes mammaries then the back three could spend the whole evening running down blind alleys.
So is it going to be gung ho,stick it up your jumper or a subtle blend of the two?
Bring on Friday!
Wood is injured and Brown is used as England’s secondary kicker usually. Plus Joseph has a pretty intelligent kicking game.
N.B. I know Brown can kick but does he? I seem to remember criticism being aimed at him for seeking contact rather than kicking.
Of course I may be completely wrong again!
Being a bit harsh on Billy V there. He’s been in superb form recently, and the only reason he didn’t look that great in the first two games in the AI’s is because England were relying on him too much to carry everything. Wood and Robshaw barely carried anything. And the first two games were against the best two sides in World rugby!
Do agree with that. I’m a big Morgan fan but when both are in form I do much prefer Vunipola. Burrell should carry to the gainline more than any centre did in the AI’s too so that should lift some weight off his shoulders, as well as Cole offering more than Wilson in this area. Plus Haskell more than Wood.
With all those things – the ball carrying stakes should be shared more equally and I expect a big game from Billy Vunipola.
We may not have our first choice locks, but in Attwood and Kruis we have certainly got some very willing ball carriers. And as you said Haskell, Burrell and Cole all carry more than the people they’re replacing. Also Mako is back on the bench along with Brookes, Croft and Easter. All very good ball carriers. I just hope they can all provide a good platform and Youngs and Ford can get the ball in the right hands at the right time etc etc!!
A lot resting on Billy V here. He has to get into the Welsh from minute one. No dropping off either his game or the ball! Glad Easter is on the bench.
No room for Christian Day.Interesting given the options. Croft is a superb player but a lineout specialist?I can only assume that this has been worked on in training.It is still a big risk though should he be needed.
Burrell/Joseph? we can only wait and see if they have had time enough to gell.The lack of a kicking game bothers me as it puts huge responsibility on Ford. If the Welsh stifle him England’s back 3 will have to try and run everything which could be a disaster.
Haskell has to reproduce his club form. On his day he is a hell of a player. If he and Billy V get it going they will take some stopping.
So will it be run it ,boot it,stick it up your jumper or a subtle combination of all three?
Bring on Friday evening!
Jacob
People/you? can over complicate the game. If the line out’s a concern, then practice, practice, practice. It’s about throwing the ball to a catcher who’s hoisted to do so. Only things to get right are the call & the timing. Or is there more to it? Even if England do miss a couple, will the game hinge around this? Doubt it. How many line outs are there in the ave game anyway? 20? I don’t actually know… @ prob 50% each? Are England likely to lose 1/2 of their share? Unlikely and if it does go a bit belly up, then they should throw short. Possession is the main thing surely. It’s what they do with it that counts.
Regds this kicking bizzo,some time ago Shawn Edwards said something similar about NZ kicking as much as anyone. However, this is again to somewhat miss the point. Don’t NZ kick with more purpose than most? And with accuracy and a specific purpose in mind? I.e. to pressure the ball catcher with say, Savea, to force the turn over, or the oppo into kicking it back from their 1/2 – 22 for the AB open field counter? Edwards (& you) could also have mentioned that NZ also score more TRIES than other teams. Do you think that these all come from kicks? They do run it a bit too methinks.
Also, your point about Ireland’s Autumn game based around kicking, surely you are thinking mainly of the Saffa match? If you cast your mind back to Schmidt’s time @ Leinster for instance, he had their back line purring like my old moggy. Better than NH Int’al back lines IMO. JS analyses each oppo, his available team strengths, weather etc and adapts his game plan accordingly. Doubt whether his campaign this 6N is based solely around the boot.
It’s your English indoctrination about over simplifying comparisons and not seeing the bigger pic I think. The game is relatively simple. The complicated bit is in the homework and in the on the field decision making about which option to take, under pressure, as to whether to run, pass or kick the bloody thing. That’s it there is to it.
Rugby is an extremely simple game, but the line out is probably the most complex. And yes, ensuring you win your line outs is absolutely vital at test level. Ben Kay famously tried to learn Afrikaans in order to try to better interpret the Safa calls. Not to say it’ll dictate the game but it is important. Just to say practice (over the course of a week), isn’t really going to solve much.
NZ statistically kick more possession that any other test side – I’m pretty sure that is a fact (or I may have just heard that and i have no idea where to check it).
Either way – NZ defintely kick the ball a hell of a lot. Of course they kick it with more purpose. NZ run the ball yes, but only at very specific time. NZ are the masters at kicking well, creating turnover and then exploiting the gaps that turnover ball provides. Brilliant rugby but it is centered around a brilliant kicking game.
My comment about Ireland was just that, about Ireland. Wasn’t talking at all about how Leinster played a few years ago.
My point was simply this – telling England/Wales to kick less seems strange when the best side in the world kick more than anyone else.
All this stuff about England’s carrying capacity & their having multiple KICKERS is surely defensive and defeatist. Ought not, say Billy, look to his finding the oppo’s inside shoulder with the view to off loading just before, or even in, the tackle? And if England had more confidence in their backs’ ability to take the appropriate option in either running, passing or even kicking the ball & esp ‘straightening’ their attack to bring the ‘Conrad beater’, Johnny M, into a bit of space, wouldn’t this be more productive? All this reverting back to type of R1 surely smacks of fear based, limited rugby on Lancaster’s (& others’) part(s). But, you never know, it might work. Bit ditch water though & will it win a WC? This game tomorrow is an end in itself of course, but it’s also a rehearsal in the WC countdown. Heavvvy!
Don, no team at this level can just run with the ball and be successful. Not even NZ.
NZ, kick and kick and kick, chase, chase and chase, then as soon as they get a trunover (which they do very well), they attack. If there is a sturdy defence in their face (which there often is) they drive and drive and drive, until they reduce the cover defence, and then (beautifully) shred that defence.
All of there driving play is one step, close to the breakdown, often not even bothering with the SH. Not until they spot the gap.
This is no less “defeatist” than England looking at their big ball carriers as stated – or indeed Wales with theirs. The only difference is the numbers that their ball carriers wear on their backs.
Jacob
Were you a line out fwd then? Why, precisely, is the line out ‘probably the most complex’ then? And why is ‘ensuring you win your line outs is absolutely vital at test level’, more so than say winning yr scrums or, esp, the breakdown (the latter taking up more game time, therefore possession, than either the l/out or scrum I think)? Pse specifically state yr reasons. I’m dying to know what they are.
‘NZ run the ball yes, (thank you, but there’s always the psychological ‘ yes but’ isn’t there?) but only at very specific time’. Oh, & what time is that then? They also run the ball when I don’t think they should, for instance, from out of ‘D’ in their own 22. You make it sound as if they’re as programmed & robotic as England were v Oz. Are you unaware that they play ‘what’s in front of them’? If it’s on to run it, they’ll do so, if it’s to pass, ditto etc. As already reffed to, I believe NZ score more TRIES than any other team (e.g. J. Savea, c. a try a game) because they are seeking to & ‘practice’ scoring them. Are you saying that these ALL originate from a kicking game? Blimey I must be dropping off during their matches then. It’s the way you chose to tell’um methinks.
Yr comment about Ireland missed the pt. As JS was in charge of Leinster & won a few things with a certain style (RUNNING) of game, do you really think he’s going to completely abandon this style now that he’s with Ireland? Is yr opinion based on 1 season, or was it just the SA game? But I’ve already explained this.
Yr ‘point was simply’ to compare chalk & cheese. However, based on observation, I do know that the SH generally play @ a higher skill level in effecting an all round strategy & tactics involving fwds & backs being more ‘interchangeable’ than in the NH. If you want to believe this is all based solely around a kicking game, then SL likely agrees with you. Worked pretty well for him so far I guess. See if it does tonite.
Staggy
The ? is, ‘would you rather see yr team win or lose’? I know my answer. Talk about d/talk & gobbledygook! If Lanc follows yr philosophy, no wonder he’s only lost 6 v the SH. Still, no worries & no complications, it’s eons to the WC. So, ‘Don’t panic Cptn Mainwaring’, plenty of time to put things right. Egad!
Blub
I’m not suggesting that a team should just run the ball, but don’t want to go over it again. Re read my comments, incl the last to Staggy. However, I do know this; if a team kicks the ball, it better be spot on, because if it’s not, it’s just giving possession away – for free. Yr comments seem to be of the straight jacket school of rugby to me. That’s how I read them anyway. Play what’s in front is surely better.
WOW!
Mike
Hope for yr sake England have more than that to offer tonight. Witty though.
It’s Friday and time to face reality.If England are going to do anything in the World Cup they HAVE to win today.Development time is past it’s time to win difficult matches.Are their heads in the right place?Because that’s where the game is won or lost regardless of the players chosen.
Simon. Disagree. Think we can lose (on the basis that it isn’t a stuffing) today and still push on in RWC. If Wales lose though, it is curtains for them. Full team at home. They have nothing more to give.
Staggy RWC is when teams have to perform every match it is a knockout for everyone
as for Wales nothing to give IF a loss on 6 Nations at home have look at past RWC results from International teams who changed their Losing streak to winners months after Tri Nations Australia did the buisness to win RWC
This is one game in February plenty of time before World Cup to become winners in the pool of death
Wales in cardiff take a ugly win than a pretty loss so lets wait for IF Then go Wales
That’s the narrative some England fans are clinging to Staggy. Win/Win for England – lose and it’s down to players missing. Win and it shows up Wales as a busted flush because they were at home and had all of their players. Total result for England – no matter what the result (barring a beating, as you say) they can claim the upper hand over Wales.
Luckily sport is far more varied and interesting than a team simply being the sum of the players on the pitch and the coach – a coach picks those players and that’s it, they play as well as they can and if it’s not good enough you’ll need a new team to play any better. By that rationale we can predict results before games are are even played and we may as well give up when the same XVs face each other more than once – the result would be a foregone conclusion.
If we lose tonight it will be a blow but 100% disagree that it means we’ve given all we have, no matter how much some England fans and the media will want to paint it as such because it’s comfortable for them – it takes the edge off the buildup and the result because they can pre-judge the worthiness of the match as an indicator of both teams quality to suit their own narrative.
As Simon and loads of others are pointing out – the time for excuses is over. All squads will lose players before and during tournaments. If some England fans are going to claim that a team with 11 probable RWC starters doesn’t have a chance or can be so, so much better with an extra 4 players then they’re on for nothing in the WC.
Not 100% sure of the allegiances on this blog, but it seems to me the England fans are saying “no excuses”, while the Welsh fans are the ones saying we’ll blame it on injuries!
I know you’re talking about the headlines, but everyone knows rugby coverage in the national (London-based) press is largely written for people with no understanding of the game…
Petey, it’s not just the press in this instance. It’s Staggy above and on another thread he posted the same theme – “My only consolation at this stage, is that we (England) are expected to lose and if we do, we will regroup and wait for players to come back (as long as it isn’t another stuffing) but if Wales lose, where do you go from here. Everyone fit and at home?”
I felt that was worth answering – this idea that this is win or total bust for Wales. Lose and we’re dead , pack up and go home until we have a new gen of players. Win and it means nothing going forward as England will be better next time.
Conversely England can’t really lose as they have two possible results: Win and they’ve broken Wales because that’s all they have. Lose and they were not playing with a full deck anyway so it means little going forward.
So the overall message – the only team that can come out of this with anything worthwhile is England as a win with their 4th XV would be an utter triumph.
The reality is that this isn’t NZ v Spain, where such statements might have merit. This is Wales v Eng. Eng have a very good team out, only 2nd row is a genuine concern given that Manu has been out for so long anyway. No matter how much some England fans don’t want to admit it, this is a proper contest and it matters hugely for both teams what the result is 🙂
Massively agree with Brighty here.
If Wales lose it will be a blow, but I don’t see how it relates that much to the WC. Psychologically it may have some bearing but I can’t see it mattering too much. The French didn’t care that we’d beaten them in the 2011 6N when they knocked us out the 2011 WC.
The reality is that it is not that relevant.
Forget the injuries and the RWC, its a blow for any of France, England, Ireland or Wales to lose at home to any of the other teams.
Since the 2003 RW,C its evens on England v Wales matches with 7 wins each. England having lost 2 at home and Wales losing 1 to England in Cardiff
Furthermore, Wales have won 3 of the last 4 matches , including 2 at home and one away
So given the results of the past 11 years and even more so, the results of the last 4, anything other than a win at home for Wales will be a blow and a disappointment for what is a very good team.
This is why they are favourites, not because of injuries to the England side.
I agree (as a England fan). A propery contest. No excuses.
There is definitely an advantage to be taken into the RWC with a win for either side, but it will still be a tight match come September, woth no outright favourites.
The real advantage/disadvantage for the RWC will be in a teams performance over the whole championship, not in the opening game.
*proper* not propery