How did it go? Did it live up to its billing?
Give the match a rating out of 10, and please share your thoughts in the comments below.
Loading ...Six Nations 2018: England v Ireland Match Rating
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Incredible, off the scale effort from both sides, no quarter asked or given, as it should be
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WE Have the biggest player base in the world the biggest budget the best paid players and we finish 5th in Europe.EJ worked a miracle in last 2 years but is back where he started.2nd miracle now needed
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England finish 5th in a competition in which there was only one decent side – namely Ireland. No lack of effort today by England. Ireland defended better and took there chances when they presented. So where do England go now? Hartley, Marler, Robshaw, Haskell, Ford, JJ and Brown must no longer be first choices. Players need a proper rest and the SA tour provides an opportunity to test new options particularly in the backrow. England can not be competitive in the World Cup without some changes.
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I think its fair to say England should be relegated from this six nations and the georgians brought in.
Clearly that training session broke the english kids.
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Harsh
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Thought England were poor at best. Looked a little like Wales, only started playing in the last 10 minutes. They have a long long way to go. Hopefully Jones will go now
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So go on ,indulge me. Who should replace him?
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Lacanster.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
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The Exeter coach possibly. I remember reading an article when E.J came into post saying E.J works his players so hard they burn out after 2 years, sounds about right as they all looked jaded and tired
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It’s incredible that people are thinking and writing this way; but unfortunately it’s not unjustified. Put together England’s poor performances and the puzzling poor form of terrific players like Joseph, Watson and Itoje – and then think about Jones’s unpleasant comments about opponents and their countries. Leaves a nasty taste, and I don’t expect the players are thanking him. The Principality and Aviva stadiums will NOT be friendly places next season.
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Didn’t look enough like Wales, I’m afraid – Wales finished three places above them 😉
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Where do we start? To cut to the quick, send a load of understudies and tyros to play the Saffers.
It means absolutely nothing in the wider context of the World Cup. When the domestic season finishes EJ should order the nucleus of the squad to have as big a holiday as possible and forget England, forget rugby, forget anything apart from R+R.
Secondly, it seems the coaching staff need a serious word. What is Gustard doing? Ditto Borthwick. We also need a genuine attack coach and quickly.
Eddie out is just a knee jerk reaction. Given the players available, the stupid domestic schedule and the abscence of a central contract deal, i would defy any of the top coaches to get more from this current crop then Mr Jones has. Hansen would’nt touch the job ,despite our money and number of potential players,as he knows his hands would be tied by the clubs. The RFU needs to decide what is more important ,keeping the clubs sweet or international success.
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The only way England need to go is take a rest. I know that you make your own luck but to get very little in any game is a bit dire. Still cannot understand why Nigel Owens penalised Launchbury after Danny Care intercepted the ball in the Scotland match. Who was the numb-nut who decided to extend the dead ball line ahead of this match. I thought it was big enough as it was. Also did anybody else see the Irish knock on for their first try. As they say still all to play for in the next 6 Nations
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What better way to relax a nervous Ireland than to have the pressure lifted by a 50/50 late hit call on OF followed by a glaring knock try awarded. 1 in the bin, should have been two from the non wrap tackle and had The first ED try not been scored (, ref penalty already awarded) was another yellow on its way? Penalty try maybe??!
No the luck was most definitely not England’s, but Ireland are clinical and worthy champs methinks. Roll on Japan??
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I agree about the obvious knock-on for the Ireland try – glad to see it here, thought I was the only one who spotted it! That makes two dire decisions from TMOs this season, both match-changing.
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Finishing 5th is appalling for England.
-central contracts would help or allowing Eddie to choose his team from week to week and not the ridiculous situation atm where it’s difficult to bring in new players if they’re injured
-bring in an class attack coach
-stop drilling the players in training, give them a break, they look jaded
-get rid of Cole, robshaw, Hartley
-bring back a pack that can bloody well maul or even gain parity at the breakdown and scrum, the players are there playing in the EPL
-Eddie cut out the bullshit comments about opposition
-stop selecting young potential and select in form players; Armand, robson etc
– any big lumps in the backs we can pick? Would love a big bloke on the wing
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Well…..thank god that’s over.
Ireland well done, England well and truly racked, stacked and packed. Make of that what you will, this is one domestic that it seems the English were never going to get anything from, for whatever reason; the stars misaligned, the rugby gods truly pisssed off, the imps and leprechauns making a rare but powerful alliance that aligns but once a lifetime….
As evidences by the rarity of a Celtic slam….so what an awesome achievement….
Yep….proper painful. 5th is……erm……bad….really bad….and then…
An Autumn campaign that could really add to the misery, which would probably end the current regime, or a good run up to the next nations with momentum to the WC……..
Sorry don’t know why I’ve said that about the WC, I sound like a footie fan, desperate for any Kind of hope. Long way from calling for a game against NZ aren’t we…..very very unhappy…..
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England has the biggest player base in the world the biggest budget BUT NOT THE BEST PLAYERS – You are way off the mark there.
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I see the idiots are out tonight
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Lets be generous and accept that England missed Billy V, Our Lions were running on empty and the pro 14 enables the Irish to manage their player schedules better, still some way short of being in the mix for the World Cup. Resting players for the summer is a no brainer as is actually giving untried players a chance to shine in SA. Remain unconvinced that Hartley, Robshaw, Brown and Haskell are the best in there positions at there clubs. Even if they would not get through the tournament without injury. Englands back-row remains a problem.,Youngs injury exposed cover at scrum half, and centre partnerships have hardly set the tournament on fire. The SA tour needs to give Armond, Mercer, Simmons undersell et al a proper run. The outstanding half back pairing in the prem is Robson and Cips. No fan of Cips but having watched him destroy Bath at the Rec in December he does bring skills to the party which have been lacking lately. It is not a case of throwing the baby of with the bathwater, but being willing to be open to a few ideas. Having watched Mercer develop at Bath over the last two seasons I find it difficult to understand why Haskell and Robshaw remain ahead in the pecking order. I am sure Exeter fans hold the same view of Simmons and Armand.
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That was very tough conditions to say the least. But still the snowy conditions kept it reasonably dry so defences were put to their absolute limit on both sides, especially Irelands in the 2nd half. A very interesting game. Ireland did need a bit of luck to win but they also needed to be clinical and accurate and they were. The Furlong try was a brilliant team effort.
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Jones says several players have played their last game for England.Hartley must be top of the list replaced as captain by Farrell.Haskell and Robshaw to go as Jones has failed to select Armand Mercer etc
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We might not see who he is talking about for a while tho, the SA tour should be made up of quite a few different players anyway to give some a break. I think the coaches have to take as much blame as some players from this, every aspect feels like it has regressed, particularly attack and breakdown. Though simmonds was anonymous and isn’t an international 8, certainly not the way England want to play. Watson poor, Brown would have taken that catch. A lot of work to do and it seems the coaches aren’t sure how to do it.
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The poorest England performances in the 6N’s for many years.
Difficult to pinpoint one area of real improvement, or in identifying players who have definitely progressed. Losing 3 games on the trot is a horrible stat that the whole squad should reflect deeply on. We just have to be better than this.
Some personnel changes are inevitable. A few older players should be eased out and a new captain picked for the SA trip. Any talk of Hartley as an inspiration is clearly bunk. Time to move on. The SA tour does give us a chance to have a look at a few new players, or to try some different combinatiions. Now is the time to make some changes to personnel and some refinements in playing style. There is the nucleus of a very good squad, so its not as if we have to start from scratch.
New faces are required on the coaching team as well. They need reinvigorating with someone to look at attack, and it wouldnt be the worst appointment in the world to bring in someone to specifically look at our breakdown work.
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Finally England get some decent front foot ball but we have Wigglesworth at No 9! Cant help but feel Care would have given more starting given the forwards upped their game. This wasnt a poor performace today by England they had more territory, more possession, and made more meters in attack. The difference was execution. I dont know what people expect from England but its as if everyone thinks we should steamroll every team which is just not the case.
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Trying to be subjective about Englands abject results is always going to be difficult for any committed supporter.That certain players have been overplayed is undeniable but also the fact that the Celtic nations have improved has to be acknowledged.
It is tempting to point to the significant absence of Big Billy as being a direct cause of Englands malaise-this is only partly true but his abscnce has had a negative effect on other players performances particularly JJ due to the constriction of space in the outside channels .
How England will perform in the World Cup is anyones guess but a lot will depend on EJ having good gamblers instincts- does he stick on 15 or twist and go for bust.
At present on can assert several things:-
1) Rest for the forwards is essential
2)Certain players need to start as they are not game changers wheras certain players are better as finishers when fatigue sets in (Care Nowell,Sinkler(in the short term anyway)
3)Englands attack runs better and is more balanced with Ford at 10.Fine player though Farrell is you cannot play for England as he plays for Saracens-in Internationals you need the surgical skills of the matador rather than the belligerence of the picador.
4)To be blunt some good old fashioned nasty belligerence is required both in forwards and backs .This will be difficult as players such as Jonno Lol and Danny don’t grow on trees and the rules changes over the last 20 years have gone a long way to negating traditional English strengths particularly at the breakdown-In an ideal world we could go back to old fashioned rucking where we could shoe offending Celts out of the back and continually play on the front(Some hope there!).If,however Manu can regain his Raging Bull persona last seen against NZ that would be welcome .
5)Scrum half and Back Row continue to be problem areas.We badly missed Youngs,and a third alternative is required-Wigglesworth is too slow.As for the Back Row we have got to accept that we do not have the quality that we had in 2003 -I grew up watching John Hall play at the Rec and it is fair to say that Messers Haskell and Robshaw do not bear comparison to Hall and Hill.Some young blood is required Simmons has a future be it at 7 or as a replacement ,he cant do the heavy lifting required at International level.Whoever you pick at 6 will determine who you pick at 7 and vice-versa.If one assumes that Big Billy is the 8 then long term replacements are required for 6&7-the question being who do you pick first,in my opinion you have to pick the 6 first as there are more options at 7. Long term the choice seems to be between Mercer and Willis at 6,if you pick Mercer then you have to pick Underhill at 7,if you pick Willis then you have you have to choose Simmons or one of the Curry twins.
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Jones needs to go back to what he said, players will be picked on merit, to my mind bye bye Hartley, Wigglesworth, Lawes on the Flank, Haskell and Ford needs a look at and in comes Cowan- Dickie, Robson or Vennacott, Armand and Marcus Smith, Smith on the bench.
We lack a game changer off the bench someone like Cipriani.
I have said this before but not much use now as he’s going back to New Zealand but Eddie clearly likes a big ball carrying lump in Billy or Hughes so when they are both injured why turn to Sam Simmonds who is great at 8 in a different way and persist with the same gameplan? Why didn’t he just plug the gap with Waldrom (a short term solution) or change the gameplan to suit Simmonds?
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Gosh – disappointment all round as an English supporter. Well done Ireland. Deserved winners (deserved it for the win in France alone!). England fifth is a fair reflection of the tournament.
Where to go from here? Some thoughts-
1. EJ isn’t going anywhere, but changes needed in the coaching set up. Specifically an attack coach and someone doing a better job on the breakdown work. Am disappointed by a number of EJ selections but sadly that isn’t going to change. Training methods may need to change. I don’t know what goes on but many of us think the players are virtually broken.
2. Develop some backrow, sh and centre players. We looked weak in all areas.
3. RFU and clubs. Please try to work out a way to stop the better players being overplayed. A better arrangement is needed if we are realistically and regularly going to challenge for WCs and possibly in European competitions.
4. Players please remember what you learned about passing when you were 10 years old. Ball in front of the player for him to run onto. Then please remember what you learned at 12. Run onto the ball, don’t take it standing still.
Probably some more things to add but that is enough frustration vented for the moment.
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Oh yes!
5. Not convinced many of the current set of players deserve to be jettisoned. Many of the older ones actually played quite well yesterday. (Happy to see new players coming through though and being picked when they are better than what we have). Thought that comment was a cheap shot from EJ trying to deflect the blame away from him. Most of our lame performances were a result of the system or ….
6. Back row balance as JS10 said. Once again an EJ fault in picking the team.
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Farrell improved when put out wide, but him and Brown severely overrated. A number forwards aren’t capable of 80 minutes. On the plus May is fantastic but needs the ball, he broke the game line most touches. The French played a fast hard game and showed up the pommes, look forward to them going down under.
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Mark, Farrell is the one England player who would walk into any other side in the six nations. Brown is hardly “over-rated”. Look at the amount of people slagging him off on here despite the fact that he was outstanding when he came on yesterday, and ask yourself whether he would have dropped the ball that Watson made a hash of for Ireland´s first try. If you are looking for problems in the England side they don´t begin here. Even with BV fit, I don´t see any English back row combination that will give us as good a loose forward combination as Ireland, France, Scotland or Wales at present. We also need another scrum half from somewhere. I would like to see Harrison given a run out in the summer. Vital that most of the top players get a really good rest. England´s biggest problem looks to have been tiredness for some time.
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Andy
Farrell is not anywhere near as good as many england fans claim.
Is he better then sexton at 10? No.
Is he better then henshaw at 12? No.
Is he better then ringrose at 13? No.
So your point that he would walk into any 6 nations side is not correct.
At the moment i dont see any English player good enough to play for ireland.
But by this time next year i expect my opinion to have changed except farrell being good enough to walk into the irish starting line up.
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As an Irishman myself I find this a bit rich, Farrell is world class and I’d take him in our team all day everyday at 12, as for the rest of the side I’d take billy v at 8 when healthy all day, and before this 6n brown over Kearney tho he seems to have bounced back to his European player of the year form. Think in some respects england have too much depth than they know what to do with, but finding a combination, particularly backrow and 10, 12, 13 is still looking tricky!
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Phil i am talking about the here and now. Farrell being world class depends on how you define world class i guess. For me its the best player in each position. At 10 i would put 2 player a head of him 1 being irish and the other being the best in the world BB. At 12 for me he isnt the worlds best either. Would you automatically drop henshaw for farrell? Henshaw is our best centre, defensively he is up with the best in the world as he reads the attacking line so well and never misses his man which farrell has a tendency to do, missing 17 tackles. Offensively he is a linch pin the wrap around works so well on first phase ball with him as he can burst the line as well as have the hands to pop the ball at the right time. If henshaw had the offloading game of sonny bill then i would have him as the best 12 in world rugby. Im not saying farrell isnt a good player, he is but not good enough to WALK in the irish starting line up.
Billy v is a excellent player but he didnt play this year. Cj made team of the year in 2017 and he is shoe in for team of the year again this year at 8. What is it billy can do that cj cant?
Over the last 3 years brown has been the better player no doubt.
But over this 6 nations it has been RK. He has found some form again in the green Jersey which has been missing for a while. Brown was dropped for a winger/full back.
Says enough about his form of late in the england shirt. I do expect him to start for england at 15 during the w.c . He is a far better player then person.
I expected the argument for may/watson >earls but again as much as i do like watson i wouldnt put either of them above earls.
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Farrell is a different type of centre than Henshaw but in answer to your question yes i would automatically drop Henshaw provided the tactics changed accordingly. Farrell gets a lot of stick for his missed tackles statistic but it is a very misleading one. All in all he is an excellent defender doing exactly what he is being asked to do by his coach that does lead to missed tackles but in low risk situation where if he makes the tackle it gives his team a huge advantage and if he misses it there is a sweeper looking to pick up the scraps
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Irish, good Slam, but don’t get carried away! Jeremy Guscott thinks Ireland don’t have any world class players. I disagree – they definitely have three in Murray, Sexton and Furlong; but they are going to need more to beat the best at WC time.
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Getting fed up of reading articles which slag off the players while talking reverentially about Eddie the Ego’s uphill battle to fix the problems. Eddie is himself central to the problem flogging the players to death when they are already tired from the lions. Sexton has played 2 matches for the full 80 minutes since the Lions, Faz has played 16! Eddie knows all this but it hasn’t stopped him pushing them beyond their limits, and it’s a truism that physical exhaustion creates mental exhaustion.
Then there are Eddie’s abject failures of selection as in his contemptuous treatment of Robson who everyone thinks should be playing and his inability to put in coherent structures and a coherent game plan.
Why do people think he’s going to wise up and change? For that he would need humility, an attribute which is seemingly quite beyond him.
When he took over southern hemisphere fans said he was a micro manager control freak taskmaster who built teams up in the short term and then broke them, and constructed reactionary unimaginative game plans. I ignored all this thinking surely he will have learnt from the past. Now I really fear they were and are right and we are in a very bad situation.
Sorry to sound negative, just feel that realism is better in the long term than blind optimism.
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If I’m being honest I think these performances were due. A lot of these players are simply knackered. Eddie had the chance to add some players who performed well on the summer tour, but hadn’t been put through the ringer in the Lions squad, but he didn’t and, is maybe now regretting that decision.
After a good rest (if they get it), I think the core group of players would perform much better. We also have some top quality players who have been missing from the squad. Billy V, Ben Youngs and Jack Nowell are all players who can come back in and make a big difference.
I do think though, that there are some other guys who can come in and do a job. Simmonds definitely has a future as does Underhill. Mefcer is another guy who needs to be introduced into the back row.
For me a back row of Mercer, Simmonds/Underhill and Billy would be a nice balance of grafters, carriers and versatility. Get them in for the summer tour and see what happens.
We should also look at some different centre combos and wing/fullback options. Solomona deserves more game time as does Earle but, also guys like Lewington, Woodward, Marchant, Devoto and a few more.
One thing Eddie has to look at is more scrum halves in the squad and there are a few good ones to choose from. Robson, Spencer, Harrison and Velacott to name a few.
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Well done Ireland on the Gram Slam, they were deserved winners. As an English fan I am disappointed with our results but I think perspective is needed. At times during this tournament every team could have lost including Ireland to France. Going back to the Ireland game it was three tries apiece and should have been 3 -2 to England but that is the way it goes, we also won the second half, so although Ireland deserved the win it is not all doom and gloom. Just my view.
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As a Wales fan, overall things are pretty good. Still some proven world-classers to come back (though losing Webb is, to quote Oscar, careless) and some very good performances from newcomers like Parkes, Navidi and Hill. Also were a bit unlucky with the calls against us in England, and were only three points behind Ireland and pressing for a try when that interception happened (by the brilliant Stockdale). So things could have been different – which is NOT to say Ireland didn’t deserve it or weren’t the best side this year. Many congrats to them.
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Think I personally prefer Davies to Webb, plus playing week in week out with Patchell, Parkes and the other Scarlets can only be a positive.
Thought Shingler started the tournament well; who would be your preferred starting back-row once Warburton is back?
Must admit, I find watching Wales far more enjoyable when Biggar isn’t around doing his footballer impressions.
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Intense. Ireland looked (& were for most part) more efficient & effective rather than brilliant, but got the job done. Surprisingly by the end, many stats favoured England. Certainly in terms of territory & possession, with 3 tries apiece. Therefore these, to an extent @ least, indicated that Jones has taken England back into their defensive shell even though this clearly didn’t & hadn’t previously worked x3! However, there seems to be plenty scapegoat hunting here with various reasons proffered for England’s loss (& previous loses). In the end though, much of the buck must surely stop at the top. It seems that EJ’s potentially likely to blame his tools though. Jones’s issue has always been his lack of attack in midfield & much fudging at loose forward, esp No. 7. He himself stated the former when he signed up, but has done little to fix same since then. He also went back on his opinion about Robshaw as a 6. Fudged (non) thinking to then play Robshaw @ 7 & also Lawes @ 6. Seems fear based ‘D’ thinking of how to stop the opposition rather than trying to impose his own game by creating, then making best use of possession for conversion into points. And it was only in the last 1/4 v Ireland that England ran with some purpose. Why did England wait until the horse had bolted? They were by then playing catch up & responding to Ireland’s tune & too late rather than fire from the outset. Record still looks ok, but 3 on the bounce? Alarm bells? However, England are stuck with Jones now. It too late to change horses & there’s no intention of the RFU doing so, therefore is largely down to Jones not to replicate the previous situations @ the Reds & Saracens.
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