Comments on: Three talking points from the Champions Cup quarter finals

By: Dazza (Dazzle)

Dazza (Dazzle) — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 10:26:03 +0000

As you say Don ‘the nature of the beast’. Sarries are most definitely not the only club to Prem club to recruit SA players. In fact at the moment, we are a few behind some of the other clubs. Sarries currently have Rhodes, Burger and Koch, of which one is retired from international rugby and one never played for SA. As for bought success, definitely not so much these days, again when compared to other Prem clubs. Have a look at Wasps recruitment over the last few seasons and see what you think.

By: Don P

Don P — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 12:42:42 +0000

May be able to do little about commercial interests prevailing over morality, but it doesn’t mean that these have to be accepted Andy. Also, I do sometimes post or mail org’s to ?, condemn or challenge them to do better. I prob don’t do it enough though. Reminds me, must fire a missive off to WR’s Gosper, who also opines the market forces rule ok? Remind HIM that they ought not to. Not least because, as you point out, ultimately they will tilt the balance of rugby (permanently?) out of kilter to the extent that they will suppress local talent in favour of ‘foreign’ mercenaries, thus further distorting the world game. Trouble is, self interest I bang on about, blinds most to the consequences of same. All actions, including those greed based, have reactions. Hence my parallel, if rather emphasised, comments about warming & plastic. Now what is BG’s address?

By: Andy

Andy — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 14:52:53 +0000

Don’t condone sharp practice at all. Sarries are under investigation once again, but have not yet been found guilty. You seem to see the whole issue of foreign players as a moral one, but (possibly regrettably) rugby is now a business rather than a game.This being so, the best players will end up with the strongest clubs in the wealthiest countries. It is a question of the basic economics of supply and demand and although it may be cynical the likes of you and me are not going to influence it. If there’s a no deal Brexit none of the English clubs will have two beans to rub together within a couple of years anyway, so they will probably all go home. I gather there are something like 350 Saffies playing pro rugby in Europe at present and I am sure most of them are much happier doing that than working at something else in SA because the game can’t support them there. Finally, Whinge-Jones is a great player and a fine man, but I hate to see players reffing the game instead of getting on with it regardless of nationality.

By: Don P

Don P — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 01:56:08 +0000

It was typo Andy. Apologies. It was meant to be 70, as you stated elsewhere. What I’m rambling on about, is that you appear to condone sharp practise. Some of which is currently being investigated at Sarries & explained in other posts here. Not that complicated. I wonder if Alan Whinge-Jones (x3?) would agree with yr neutrality.

By: Don P

Don P — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 01:43:53 +0000

Perhaps they could simply buy in a whole S Rugby franchise Andy.

By: Don P

Don P — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 01:38:50 +0000

Then tell yr relies in the NZ ed system to name these hordes Andy. You seem to have become akin to AlexD with yr intractable, yet unsupported opinions. Without facts, names it’s speculation.. as usual. And it doesn’t hold water to imply that, because someone else is allegedly doing it, it justifies our doing it. Auckland is (yawn, yet again) the biggest Poly city in the world. Immigration is a fact of life. NZ also presents ed opportunities for PI’anders. If they’re entitled to play NZ rugger they may do do so. However, although I’ve tired of going over this, you may wish to check where the likely current NZ team members were born. Yr real answer of course, is to play better rugger. And you still avoid dealing with Sarries’ continuing corruption charges which is central to the whole issue of their concentrated buying of Saffas. Which of course, as even you admit, suppresses yr local players. You may not support Sarries, but you seem to support the undermining of SH rugby, epitomised by their under investigation practises. I don’t rate Farrell for reasons already stated by many here, not just me. Likewise I don’t like Sarries, again for the already stated reasons. Yr linking of the 2 is irrelevant reframing. That pros may go to where they’re best paid, if not nec appreciated (Hendre Fourie, who played for England, may not have felt appreciated when immediately faced with deportation following a career ending injury) doesn’t have be condoned & ironically, is contradicted by yr counter contention & with which I concur, that it does indeed suppress yr own.

By: Don P

Don P — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 00:50:50 +0000

As bad as Saracens then Leon? Although they haven’t particularly targeted Saffas as have Saracens. Again, you don’t address their latest corruption investigation or SH player drain. It’s part of a wider issue & as even the jaundiced Andy concedes, suppresses yr own players’ opportunities. Heard of France?

By: Andy

Andy — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 19:20:05 +0000

69 not 79 Don, and to be honest on this occasion I have no idea what you are rambling on about. Why “self serving”? I have no axe to grind whatsoever, and apart from being a Quins supporter because I played there many years ago I tend to look at the game from a fairly neutral perspective. The fact that my opinions do not always coincide with yours probably doesn’t justify the level of your personal criticism.

By: Don P

Don P — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 15:28:11 +0000

Not for the bulk of these players Andy, as you well know, since you’ve checked. Not being 1eyed & seeing only what you want to see surely? You’ve completely ignored the wider implications of my piece & reframed it to to suit yr narrow, self serving view. Bit simplistic for an experienced 79 yr old innit?

By: Andy

Andy — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 08:19:19 +0000

Don has actually gone back well over 20 years Leon. Once again your point is well made. Overseas players will come to wherever they can make a decent living and I can see nothing wrong with them wanting to provide for their families and futures.

By: Andy

Andy — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 08:13:38 +0000

Hard to name people who are often on the boat back home by the time they are old enough to play adult rugby because they have been deemed not good enough Don, but I have relatives working in the education system in NZ who tell me that it happens on a regular basis. As to self interest I find it hard see why I should be accused of that for defending a club that I do not support and have no vested interest in. I am also far too old to require”self justification”. As to “speculation”, your dislike of Farrell has been well documented on here for a long time and could reasonably be seen as a reason for not liking the club that employs him. I don’t like the Prem clubs employing a large number of foreign players either, because I think it can deprive young players of opportunity, but professionals will go where they are best paid and most appreciated. That is, despite your objection, “the nature of the beast”, and is not remotely comparable to filling the oceans with plastic.

By: Leon

Leon — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 07:53:33 +0000

I kept my list to just the last 5 years. Your list spans a decade but if you want me to go back further here goes
G.North, S.Ma’afu, K.Fotuali’i, R.Verbakel, G.Dickson, G.Pisi, K.Pisi, B.Reihana, R.Wilson, J.Downey, A.Blowers, W.Shelford, P.Lam, J.Ansbro, S.Lamont, E.Murray, B.Pountney, T.Smith, G.Townsend, G.Pagel, J.Kruger, B.Mujati, S.Tonga’uiha, S.Manoa, C.Wyles, M.Roberts, A.Bateman, C.Spencer, F.Autagavaia, A.Tuala

Can’t be arsed to scan individual players on wikipedia to find out where they were born (using your Vunipola rule) but it is widely recognised that a lot of islands talent plays super rugby