Comments on: Wales squad announced for November Internationals https://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals Rugby Union opinion and discussion, for the fans, by the fans. Thu, 02 Jun 2016 14:44:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1.1 By: dewipreece33https://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-372013 Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:04:39 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-372013 I don’t think that anyone can argue that Gatland’s squad is a ‘bad one’. However I don’t agree with the selections he’s made around the fly-half position.

Biggar has in my opinion at least earned the right to start as number 10. Give and take a little bit, he is the in-form number 10 at the moment. But why, oh why is Priestland our back up option? I feel it’s a risk-free, boring, and predictable choice from Gats.

A few years ago, I was one of the later ones to jump on the Priestland band wagon, because even though I was never fully convinced, I think he did have a great start to his career, and did at times look incredibly exciting. But unfortunately for him, his injuries have meant he just hasn’t been able to reach the same form again. Very much a Chris Czekaj story…

We need a radically different plan B option on the bench, if not a plan C as well against the Southern hemisphere sides. We’re already at risk of falling into the same mould and pattern that has seen us lose countless number of games against NZ/Aus/SA recently.

We need Patchell/Owen Williams/Hook/Matthew Morgan involved in some capacity in match day squads, let alone the full squad for the Autumn international. Especially in the case of Patchell and Williams, they will undoubtedly contribute a lot to Welsh rugby in the future, and have already shown the ability to control their club sides with maturity beyond their years. They can handle the pressure of this Autumn series, and indeed thrive if given the chance.

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By: Graemehttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371858 Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:07:05 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371858 I could say that you were trolling me! But we’re obivously not, just having a healthy deabte. Although I think it is time to agree to disagree, otherwise we shall propbably be still here come this time next year :-)

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By: brightyhttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371841 Wed, 22 Oct 2014 12:10:31 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371841 Graeme, if I was the paranoid type I might wonder if you are trolling me now :-) We’ve gone from the “Wales are found out” cliche to the “Wales only do well when the rest of the teams are poor” one.

In that WC we came a well beaten 4th. We weren’t even the best team there from the North, I don’t know of anyone who thought we were 2nd best in the world. When we came back I thought we had a shout at developing into being the best in Europe and I think the Slam and the run around it proved that for a while we were. I don’t dismiss that as the others playing badly but it’s a perennial argument that never goes away – we only dominate when the others are rebuilding/etc. Not an argument I ever buy. When I see us lose recently it’s primarily down to poor execution e.g. against England we came up against a team that wanted, executed and took advantage of our mess – we didn’t defend a tap pen and we didn’t take the chances we had to score. When I think of our best wins e.g. 30-3 I see broadly the same team but playing at a fantastic level so I have confidence that we have the base to do it again.

In terms of us not having as settled a squad of probables/possibles as others I can’t agree. Who are England’s 2nd choice wings? Who are their first choice centres? Whos’ the 2nd choice FH? The Irish centres? The Scottish FH? The French squad? I don’t see us as suffering any more than others – indeed I’d say we have more settled first XV options than most of the others. I don’t see that as a bad thing. Of course we don’t have as much depth as England but then nobody does in terms of numbers. What’s key when fit is how well our best players stack up against each other and in nearly every position I’d still go for a Welshman, but I am biased obviously there. When not fit … well, Eng are going to miss Tuliagi, Corbs, etc. no matter who they have as backup.

In terms of developing depth I see we’ve done well – Prop: 2 or 3 replacement options for Adam (Rhodri from Scarlets, Samson Lee and now this new Os boy); 2nd row: Jake Ball; Back Row; Baker/Navidi; FH: Patchell; SH: Davies; Centres: Amos; FB: Williams. Some of those 2nd choice players would make a good push to get into some other squads.

“at the moment any of three teams is just as likely to top the group as they’re to finish third. It is too colse to call!” – completely agree and as someone the wrong side of 40 just having that is extremely welcome. A decade ago we wouldn’t even have a chance of coming out of that WC group. Plenty on here have told me that we don’t this time either, but most decent rugby fans know that we’re in with a shout, as you do.

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By: Prophet Enochhttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371832 Wed, 22 Oct 2014 09:43:54 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371832 Expect the same old same old selection from Gatland.

Getting in the side is harder than being dropped for being rubbish ……….Priestland, Phillips, Cuthbert or even Gethin Jenkins.

Jenkins in again over Paul James for the 1st game as usual. Scrum to be an issue again as per Twickenham 2014 cos Melonhead CANNOT scrimmage-rather important for No1 that!
Wales to lose as usual.

Priestland at No10 where he has been such a success for years!

Phillips will be in at 9 because of his XP.

Oh well the best chance of a winning a major game is against Aussies after seeing the SA v AB and Aus v AB games last few weeks but we won’t be picking Paul James to destroy the Aussie Front Row because Gethin is playing so so well for the Loos (who happen to be Wales’s lowest placed region!!)

No place for Tipuric in the starting team even though he is the most creative and skilful No7 in Europe and wins numerous turnovers for the teams he plays in.

We’ll have Roger Gimp’s at No7 who was invisible against the Ospreys apart from his yellow card.
Still as we are always told refs like the Gimp because he’s polite and a good loser.

4 games, 3 losses, no major SH scalp to speak of, slection to be the same so a mediocre 6N in Feb/Mar beckons and things still won’t change so out at the Pool Stage of RWC 2015.

Nice one Gats!

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By: Graemehttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371827 Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:37:30 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371827 I think it comes down to the interpretation of the pharse ‘found out’, I don’t mean it in terms of game plan or style, I agree with what you say on that; the only place I differ is that I don’t feel Wales traditional style of play is Warrenball I’ve always seen Wales as more of a team that likes to throw the ball around abit.
What I mean by it is that when you got to the semi fianl and won the grand slam, some and by no means all, Wales fans seem to think that you were the second best side in the world and you couldn’t be playing any better. In my opinion this isn’t the case, you won mainly because the other NH teams were playing average at best and not excuting their game very well, which is why you came unstruck against the SH teams like everyone else. Bit of a harsh way of looking at it, but you were the best of a bad bunch, so to speak.

All I feel has happen now is that the other teams have improve and ironed out some, not all of their weaknesses where Wales haven’t, which is where you have been found out. For me this is Gatland’s fault as, I don’t know if was distracted by the Lions job or what but he didn’t seem to want to look ahead. Most of the other teams seem to have options in the different postions going into the world cup where they have a group of players they can pick from. To me Wales don’t have that, you’ve got your first 15, which some would debate (inculding me) isn’t actually your best but that is it. For instanice do you know which is you second best centre pairing or if North or Cuthbert gets injuried who the would be the replacement etc. I don’t feel this is as clear cut as it is for other teams.

I’m not suggesting that you need whole sale changes, and as I said this squad is pretty decent. Just feel that he should of picked it about two years ago and viewed it as a four year cycle and tested a few players out, espically when you consider the age of some of the older players. A year out from a WC seems a little late, but who knows it could all work out fine at the moment any of three teams is just as likely to top the group as they’re to finish third. It is too colse to call!

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By: brightyhttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371823 Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:38:22 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371823 Graeme, you caught an accumulation with my reply – an accumulation of getting a bit fed up with this general idea that Wales are a busted flush because we’ve been found out. I just don’t really understand it. I don’t think there is much wrong with the game – it’s our execution of it that is an issue.

Most teams play broadly the same way they always have – Aus are pixies, SA will beat you up, NZ will play with intensity + pace and invite you to have the ball so they can prosper over turnovers … England will dally with backline moves but when push comes to shove they’ll go for the big men up front. None of those teams have overly suffered from that style of play apart from when they don’t execute it well.

Our lack of improvement has come from an inability to execute in a consistent fashion in my opinion. The persistence with Priestland and an out-of-form Mike has been an issue but it’s not the only one – I’ll be glad to see Biggar given a run at 10 but I’m still worried that he has not shone in his previous runs in the jersey. That’s my problem with calling for wholesale changes – all of the countries are littered with guys who sparkled in their clubs for a while but totally failed to do anything in the national jersey’s so I’m afraid that it would be madness to throw the baby out with the bathwater – to dismantle thoroughly a team of WC semi-finalists and Grand Slam winners.

Even last season, when by a lot of reports we were rubbish, we managed to win all of our home 6Ns games and ran SA painfully close (again, I know) in the summer. There is a lot to build on there so I want evolution, not revolution.

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By: brightyhttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371822 Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:31:30 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371822 Hah, I really have no answer to that. Point conceded.

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By: Pablitohttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371821 Tue, 21 Oct 2014 15:46:59 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371821 Chris Ashton – 19 tries in 39 England appearances. 23 tries in 33 Saracens appearances (2013-2014).

Doesn’t mean he should be in the England team…

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By: Graemehttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371817 Tue, 21 Oct 2014 13:04:33 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371817 I do actually agree with you, the squad is decent the only changed I make (that others haven’t said) is Cuthbert for one the foremention in my last post. I was just pointing out if I was Welsh I be frustrated that it has taken Gatland this long to make these changes.

My comment about being found out was that in my opinion, you haven’t imporved or changed in the last three years, I don’t think you’ve actually got worse, just other teams have got better. And why, becuase they changed the things that need changing, Gatland hasn’t (until now).

Don’t think me rude, but I’m not going to start trading stats with you, as I can come up just as many that suggest the opposite. I was merely giving my opinion and you are quite within you right to disagree with it. And at the end of the day, in a years time, any one of, England, Wales or the Aussies could have gone home early at the group stage, equally anyone of them could have top the group and mostly likely be preparing for a WC semi final. And opinions about who that will be are more than likely to change game by game from now untill the RWC.

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By: brightyhttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371814 Tue, 21 Oct 2014 12:30:02 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371814 Ah, the old “found out” accusation. Ok then, I fully expect every team we play this year to wallop us as we’ve been “found out”. I hope Warren does keep up the good work – we need to beat 1 or preferably both of Eng and Aus at least in the WC next year. I’m not discounting Fiji either. Our record against England for the last 4 is that we have won 3 and lost 1. Our record in the last 6 is that we have won 3 and lost 3. Stats to make a Welshman leap with joy if he remembers the 90s and early noughties at all. I don’t see us as favourites to win that crunch match but I don’t see it as a “found out” lost cause either.

As for the squad selection – In the last RWC we had the youngest squad at the whole thing, most of them not far off their Welsh debuts. So it makes perfect sense that we still have most of those players getting ready for the next one. When England make a song and dance about “not having enough experience” at world cups it’s received as a truism and SL gets plaudits for working on it. When Wales try and build a core of 50+ cap players it’s conservatism. In that same period of time, when Wales and England were both blooding new players, Wales have never been smashed by England.

Our record against SH sides in that time is marginally worse than England’s and the same as Ireland’s. Scotland have the best record of all 3 of us.

My point is that’s hyperbolic to claim that Wales have been “found out” based on not achieving the Slams and titles they did in the previous couple of years or this hilarious assertion that a team playing poorly is in fact a team stuck on “Warrenball”. It’s not that – we’re just playing badly. When we lost by single digits to Aus and SA we weren’t losing because of “Warrenball”, we were losing due to lack of game management, lack of sense (experience) and the excellent play of the opposition. Ditching almost the whole squad for a new one won’t fix the first two of those problems.

I think this squad is a decent one – good balance of young and old, a mix of players to enable a bit of a change. A few notable omissions e.g. Eli Walker but a few welcome additions e.g. Hallam Amos.

Cuthbert – 12 tries in 26 Wales appearances. 29 tries in 48 Blues appearances. Sorted stats for a winger.

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By: Graemehttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371809 Tue, 21 Oct 2014 12:05:20 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371809 If I was welsh I’d be getting incredibly frustrated with Gatland. He doesn’t seem to want to admit that he can’t take the same squad he had at the last RWC to the next one and is making minimal changes. If he continues to pick the same team that he has for the last three years then I’d been worried beacuse it has been found out.

And can someone please tell me what on earth he see in Alex Cuthbert? He can’t finish from any further out that 5 yards and his defence is abysmal, surely givin the likes of Kristian Phillips, Harry Robinson & Jordan Williams a go would be better players with a little more about them…

Hang on what am I saying?…I’m English!…Keep up the good work Warren, you’re doing a smashing job!

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By: Mikehttps://therugbyblog.com/wales-squad-announced-for-november-internationals#comment-371801 Tue, 21 Oct 2014 10:54:37 +0000 https://therugbyblog.com/?p=35072#comment-371801 Williams should be in there as well, instead of priestland.

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