Or OFTEN ref’s opinion. C’mon, they see some things, but they miss a lot too. When was the last time you saw 2 PTs & 2 YELLOWS?!

Was Billy V under pressure when he hi tackled the AB 1/2back for his yellow? Should it have been a yellow for a 1st (not that there is any rule stating that there has to be more than 1 infringement as some commentators imply)?

Also it could have been argued @ the end that the Welsh tackler actually knocked the ball out of the Saffa ‘try’ scorer’s hand fractionally before his shoulder made contact with his opponent. Watch it again in replay if you can.

Like I say, refs’ calls can change a game. And they can & do get it wrong @ times.

For me Wales were unlucky, but then luck can also make or break a tight game.

Regards England I think it can be to straw clutch to look in isolation at score diffs too closely. As I’ve mentioned prev, can stats tell part of a story, but to overly rely on them can be misleading.

The 2nd test was closest on the score board & yet, according to gen concencus (media, here?), the 1st test was actually harder for the ABs. And in the 2nd, as in last test, the games were effectively over a bit after & before 1/2 time respectively.

Also, for me, in the 1st test, the ABs set out to up their game & SCORE @ the death which they duly did – eventually. Whether it was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ likely depended on their scoring or not. However, that set a marker of their intention for the series IMO, rather than to kick the goal to win the game.

Stats don’t always reflect such things. So maybe, like the IRB rankings as I’ve been told, stats should be taken with a pinch of salt?

On the other hand, have England improved? Well they’re usually competative up front & Lancaster had the backs running the ball more (which surprised me somewhat) & with a that bit o’ luck (or awareness?) thing, Yarde & Tui could (should?) have scored… if they’d had fends. But, how do you ‘measure’ true improvement? You quoted stats. Prehaps to a degree. Or, if the last test was any yardstick (as per the last Irish tour’s results. Where HAVE I seen this before?), then stats may be questionable.

Diff one & maybe the AI’s will tell more? England play the SH each yr & if they defeat them this time, then it will be measureable that they will have improved by dint of their moving up the rankings.

I also think that sometimes we call all pick out facts that suit our beliefs, conversely ignoring those that don’t.

Any clearer? Prob not.

Yes, there was improvement from the first game to the second, but as you are so keen to point out with England, a loss is still a loss.

And yes, I do think England have progressed. The average score over the 5 matches that England have played vs NZ in the Lancaster era is 27 – 23 to the All Blacks

The previous 5 games (inc 3 games played in Twickenham) saw an average score of 32 – 12 to the ABs

That is most definitely progression – even if England are evidently not playing to the level of the ABs

Out of interest I made some time to check out yr OPINION on;

‘… but I don’t think any country has been so habitually exploited by another as Nz exploits The pacific islands! the only reason it’s old hat is because it keeps on bloody happening!’.

This tired ol’ myth arises over & over like a broken record, but if you too had taken some time to drill down just a little, you’d find that 3 of the current AB squad are born outside NZ; Kaino, Kerr-Barlow & Fekitoa.

How does this compare with England?

Kinda makes yr contention look like an, er…, contention doesn’t it?

And as prev asked, what rules are being broken? You seem to be either a wind up merchant (ho, hum) or you’re ill informed & the words, ‘I don’t think ‘, unlike René Descartes, do seem to sum you up?

So please, shape up!

England lost 3-0. They are the facts. BUT, we all know NZ are miles ahead of everyone else, even SA IMO.

Any team in the world could have played those three tests and in all likelihood they’d have lost 3-0.

Luckily for the rest of the world, whilst NZ are consistently the best team, they can be beaten in a one off game, and that is the beauty of a WC.

England (particularly in the the first one and a half tests, far less so in the second half of the second test and first half of the third), showed that they can go toe-to-toe with the ABs. That was not enough to win away; but it could well be at home.

Wales were dreadful in the first, just as bad, if not worse than England in the last. Really felt for them in the final test though, but they should have closed it out.

England still have major issues (if not more so now than before the tour) in the centres. Everywhere else I am happy with, and is relatively settled. Yarde looks good, and I’m hoping Wade comes in and secures the other wing spot. If not, Nowell would be my prefered option. Whilst not lightning, very reliable.

I keep changing my mind as to what the 10/12 axis should be – and I’m assuming SL is in the same position. I’d like to see Cipriani/Farrell or Farrell/Burrell. Obviously with Tuilagi at 13. The first one in particular I’d be keen to see.

Well their was progress from the 1st game to the 2nd & please don’t tell me that 2 pen tries & 2 yellows didn’t alter the result of the last match.

A 2 game series is relatively scanty evidence on which to base an truly objective opinion, but there was a dramatic turnaround nevertheless.

Conversely, do you rate England as having progressed on the back of a 3 zip series loss, esp in view of their last game dismemberment & remaining @ 4 in the ranking?

The ABs had a not dissimilar ‘problem’ about WCs in the recent past, which a particular Oirish TV d/glazing salesman keep going on like a nun’s knickers about, insinuating that they were ‘cholkers’. Stopped for some reason after the last WC & A 60 zip drubbing of Ireland a yr or so back.

My pt is that Wales will break their duck at some time. It’s just 1 of those inexplicable things. I mean not many have put England to the sword 30 – 3 have they?

They had a particular issue with SA too until they DID turn them over eventually (under the maligned Henry BTW) & a Kiwi ref apart, ought to have done again a wk ago.

Keep the faith methinks.

You never prod any evidence tho do you? As if it’s needed. I, nor any NZer, need defend the ABs for sticking to the RULES.

You seem to have a chip & double stds for the reason I’ve aforementioned i.e. there is a swathe of ‘England’ players who weren’t born here (i.e. Stuart Abbott, Matt Stephens, Ricky Flutey, Henry Paul, Mark Van Gisbergen, Perry Freshwater, Hendrie Fourie, Brad Barritt, Botha, Michael Patterson, Mike Catt, Les Vainacolo, Tuialangi x2, Vainapola x2, etc, etc). And that’s just off the top of my head. Get the pic yet?

NZ innovate & interp RULES quicker than most. Yr lot are slow in catching up that’s all.

But if u’r really that concerned, why not write to the IRB & complain, but u r actually carping about an irrelevancy.

And BTW way if u look @ the current AB 1st choice team, it’s mostly Euro descent based apart from Kaino or Messam @ 6, A. Smith @ 1/2, Nonu @ centre & Savea on the wing. Not that it matters.

Is your real ‘complaint’ that of a racial nature?

A rhetorical ?, but the oldest brickbats r the most original & best aren’t they?

More to the point, do you recall the recent 3 zip series?

Go on admit it, you know you want to, you just want the ABs to lose don’t you?

Sad.

Scotland won in Aus in 2012 when Wales lost 3 consecutive tests to them.

Ireland and England have secured wins at home v SH top 3.

Wales simply can never achieve anything v the SH top 3.

Wales have not beaten NZ in my lifetime and in the history of games v the Boks have only won once in Cardiff.

Given that Wales face Eng in Twickenham (where they were pretty clueless and have only won twice since 1988) and Aus (who they have lost almost 10 consecutive matches against) in RWC 2015.

It does not take a nuclear physicist like Dr Lyn Evans (Head of CERN) to figure out that Wales have little chance of progressing at RWC 2015 beyond the pool stage.

Even at RWC 2011 when people raved about their style of play they only beat Ireland, Samoa and Fiji.

They lost to SA, France and Aus.

These are the facts-plain and simple and any group of players that loses when leading 17-0 in the first half and is 30-17 up with 10 mins and still goes on to lose must take a long hard look at themselves and admit that they just don’t make the cut when it comes to playing against the better teams in the sport.

Last week Wales managed to lose the game not once but twice. And it just keeps happening over and over again when playing the top.

Before long we’ll have Warren Gatland using Graham Henry’s line that

‘We are on a steep learning curve’ because he will have run out of excuses.

Gwynn parry, that’s an interesting thought about Wales…yep huge performance in the 2nd test until you threw away a 17 point lead. Again as Iv said before I’m not sure there’s much to compare England’s third test against Wales second test. Wales had a weeks break prior and we’re obviously far fresher.