Comments on: Who were the best players of 2014?

By: Don P

Don P — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 16:26:45 +0000

kit
Forgot. You are right about Retallick not being in the last WC. Of course it was Brad Thorn. However, BR was IRB player of the yr, so it’s splitting hairs a bit I think.

By: Don P

Don P — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 13:05:29 +0000

kit
Likely a bit late now, but didnt get around to addressing yr last comments. When you state ‘England are traditionally strong in the forwards and especially the front row, the front row is where I think most people would agree that the SH nations (except Argentina) are weakest’, surely this DOES imply English superiority. It’s ok by me, but come on. Also; ‘Interesting that you pick out England…’. Well they’re mainly English comments here & ‘it’s comments like these from you that give the perception that you just have a completely negative view of the English rugby team’. Well, I don’t respect English rugby much due their ltd style, e.g. reverting to RI v Oz & lack of coaching will to play an all round, more skilled game which is surely essential if they hope to win the WC & which must be their aim. Bloggers, pundits, former players etc also talk themselves up too much for me; e.g the 2012 win v NZ (brighty’ll love this). 1 swallow making a summer? Surely the wheels have pretty much come off for England & SL v the SH after losing 6. No? Well, compare his record with his 2 predecessors… or JS of Ireland. The latter’s won trophies with Claremont, Leinster & the 6N 1st up! How positive is England in light of these last 2 comments? I get depressed watching them. Ok, so I could stop & be happy, I know.

By: Don P

Don P — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:26:35 +0000

brighty
Another BTW. Armitage is out of the pic. He’s overseas. End of… or words to that effect. Now, who could have stated this prev? I’ll give you a hint. Do the words ‘ground hog, keyboard warrior’ etc mean anything to you? Ho, ho… hum. Ta, tah.

By: Don P

Don P — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:16:26 +0000

Jacob, Pablito and yes, you too brighty
You can be as patronising as you like, but, yet again, let me restate that this is a blog site. We can freely (presumably in most of our eyes anyway) express our views. As is my right therefore, I choose to question the value of the concept of this article (whether you like it or not). You lot do not, as is your right. However, the common thread with you is that when I demur from your conformist (& supercilious) views, you become fundamentally personal & subjective. You could try looking outward instead of incestuously inward on occasion, or perhaps you you are just on the wrong site. If it’s conformity you want, then could always join a bunch of lemmings when they next decide to run over a cliff. And BTW bright eyes, you’re becoming a bit of a bore using the same old trick by re-framing what I state… for the umpteenth time! But then you’ve only been holding a grudge since, oh, 2012. How time flies. And you STILL can’t quite bring your self to address me directly. Poor form indeed old bean. A lack of MF? Surely not… but you’d never have made an All Black. Oh dear. Am I being sarcy now? Must be catching. And oops, I nearly forgot. M. Crimbo all.

By: Pablito

Pablito — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 10:15:36 +0000

Just can’t argue with that kind of logic Brighty

By: brighty

brighty — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 10:01:10 +0000

Nah Pablito, what you do is just pick the team that beat all of the others and then through simple logic they must have the best XV in the world for that year.

For example, at the end of 2012 the ABs had beaten everyone else, then England beat them. Ergo in 2012 the best XV players in the world were the XV players who started for England on that day.

In the last 20 years worth of World Cups the ABs have only had the best players in those world cups once – and that was with home advantage. In all of the other WCs none of those NZ players would have made a world XV because they didn’t win the WC. So no Nonu, McCaw, Carter, etc.

This year the 2nd best XV in the world is obviously Wales, possibly even the best because we beat SA -> SA beat ABs and this was AFTER we lost to ABs so our win takes precedence over that loss. You see how much easier it is to work it out like this than to discuss the merits of individual players?

Simple.

By: kit

kit — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 22:55:47 +0000

*their position this year

What a rookie error

By: kit

kit — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 22:53:30 +0000

Don P, I never stated nor implied that I thought the England players were better. I was implying that if NZ higher ranking is your argument for the NZ players in those positions as better then you should make the same argument against the picking of Irish and Australian players and not just the English players, it’s comments like these from you that give the perception that you just have a completely negative view of the English rugby team.

As for AB 2nd Rows being W champs, that was in 2011 and so has no bearing on who was the better player this year, on top of that Brodie Retallick wasn’t in the world cup squad and so is not in fact a W Champ. However he has been immense this year and so is in Jacob’s team, O’Connell however has been better than Whitelock and so he deserves to be in there. Kaino I agree on and I would have him in there.

You keep talking about how great NZ are as a team and I think everyone agrees that they’re are comfortably the best but that is a sign of how well they work together as a TEAM. That doesn’t mean that each player has been the best in they’re position this year. For example Kieran Read is a fantastic player and you can make an excellent case for him being the best no.8 in the world, this year however Duane Vermeulen has been the best in that position, hence why he was up for player of the year. This isn’t to say that he is a better player than Read, just to say that he has put in the better performances this year.

By: Jacob

Jacob — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:09:16 +0000

I think you’ve just proved how much you misunderstand the whole point of this exercise when you’ve stated: “I do find that these opinions about who ‘out played’ whom hard to convince when the ‘out player’ so to speak, comes from the losing side”

So when a team loses this means that all XV players from the winning side directly outplayed their opposition number?

I really hope you don’t find a way to write an cryptic essay about how that is true.

By: Pablito

Pablito — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:07:25 +0000

Don. Let me explain slowly and in simple words for you.

Its…a…debate…over…the…best…players…of…the…year.

Therefore it is not about

A. the best team

B. What happened in 2013, 2012, 2005 or any other year apart from 2014

By: Don P

Don P — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 17:51:36 +0000

Jacob
Perception? Define outplayed. More carries, br. downs won, yds, offloads made? What criteria do you use? I find this interesting, as when contentions are actually drilled down, in reality, they often don’t stand up. It’s partly, at least, an academic exercise I know, but I do find that these opinions about who ‘out played’ whom hard to convince when the ‘out player’ so to speak, comes from the losing side…esp when they lose 3 on the bounce! Must have been marginal then? Also, I’ve never said ‘ the ABs are ‘by far and away the best side in the world’ (& I know that you’ve not stated that I have), altho you (others?) may do so. However, when you ‘struggle to see how many AB’s were better individually in 2014 than those I’ve selected’, surely means that you (not to mention this article, although I realise that selling space is part of the job here) mainly miss the pt. It’s a ‘star’ team as someone once said, that’s important, not a team of ‘stars’ or individuals. Too much is made of the latter rather than the former… as results have surely shown. Well, that’s my PERCEPTION anyway.
Pablito Much of the above applies to you also. E.g. If ‘Whitelock is a great lock and yes he is a world champ’, & ‘I’d still take O’Connell, Etzebeth, Matfield and Lawes in front of him’, they must all be world beaters then. However I still recall O’Connell in NZ when the Lions, whose team looked good on paper, were whitewashed by the ABs & yr man, O’Connell, was anon. And he couldn’t quite inspire the Irish to avoid defeat @ the death last yr. Don’t think O’Mahony played? If only? And didn’t Lawes, ‘The enforcer’, go off with an ‘egg’ on his head? And btw Dane Coles was plenty effective when mattered in the same aforementioned AB V Ireland game. That’s not to say that he’s better than say that other Kiwi Hartley, but he @ least he doesn’t get yellowed evey other 5 mins methinks. like I said prev, maybe it’s you & Jac who don’t really understand the bottom line in rugger?

By: Pablito

Pablito — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 16:16:30 +0000

Jacob, if you’re anything like me, what irritates you isn’t so much his disruption at the breakdown as his constant whinging at the ref!