Heading into the final weekend of the 2015 Six Nations, four teams are still (technically) in the hunt to lift the trophy. It has left the tournament organisers with a bit of a dilemma, as all three matches are still ‘live’, and they only have two versions of the trophy. It means that if Wales were to sufficiently hammer Italy to win the tournament, they wouldn’t have a trophy to lift.
Whatever quibbles you might have about staggered kick off times being advantageous to those that play last, it leaves us with what should be a memorable final day of the tournament. Here’s how we rate each of England, Ireland, Wales and France’s chances of winning the trophy come 7pm on Saturday.
France
Fixture: away vs England
Tournament points: 4
Points difference: +22
Quite how France are still in the running for the title is beyond most people. They have been the tournament’s great disappointments once again, their on field performances adding up to far less than the sum of their parts. They have a plethora of supremely gifted players, and yet they consistently fail to get the best out of them.
It’s all added up to the astonishing situation where Philippe Saint-André is in real danger of losing his job just six months away from the World Cup. And yet, thanks to a handy points difference after a 29-0 win over the Italians, they still have a slim chance of winning the title.
Given they way they have played, it would be a travesty, and to be honest, it’s almost out of the question. They’ve not won at Twickenham since 2005 and have been out-thought and out-played by everyone but Italy so far (Scotland should have beaten them on the opening weekend).
What they need to do: Beat England by eight points or more, and hope that Wales and Ireland lose to Italy and Scotland respectively earlier in the day.
Chances of winning the title: 2/10
Wales
Fixture: away vs Italy
Tournament points: 6
Points difference: +12
Wales have stormed back to form after their opening day loss to England, culminating in their epic win over Ireland in Cardiff in round four. That monumental defensive effort will certainly have taken it out of them, however, and there will be some tired bodies taking to the field against Italy.
Their victories have been slim thus far, but they have the bonus of not having played the Championship’s worst defence yet – Ireland, England and France have all taken big winning margins (+23, +30, +29) from their games with Italy. Do something similar in the opening game on Saturday, and they will have Ireland and England sweating into their pre-game Lucozades.
Italy have shown glimpses of what they can do, but Wales will be confident of a big win having watched the way France dismantled them last weekend. Negate their pack and the game, and probably a big points difference swing, is theirs.
What they need to do: Beat Italy with a sufficiently large points difference that they overtake both Ireland and England
Chances of winning the title: 7/10
Ireland
Fixture: away vs Scotland
Tournament points: 6
Points difference: +33
Ireland’s Grand Slam wagon had its wheels taken off in Cardiff, but Joe Schmidt’s side still stand an excellent chance of winning a second successive Six Nations title. They have an attractive points difference and play the only side in the Championship that is yet to win.
And yet the way Scotland have been playing makes this result far from a forgone conclusion. Behind England, they have been the tournament’s most exciting attacking side, and will be sure to test Ireland’s defence. Conversely, the way Wales dismantled them with clever kicking will have Schmidt and Sexton salivating, and you can expect a return to the gameplan that had served them so well before the Wales game.
Ireland should win, but will they be able to do enough with their points difference? They sit bottom of the try-scoring and line breaks charts, and there are tries in this Scotland team. They will have the benefit of knowing what they need to do to beat Wales, but not England.
What they need to do: Beat Scotland sufficiently well that their points difference surpasses England and stays above Wales
Chances of winning the title: 6/10
England
Fixture: home vs France
Tournament points: 6
Points difference: +37
If they had taken their chances against Scotland last weekend, the Championship would have been all but sewn up already. They still have the best points difference but the number of points they left on the Calcutta Cup pitch means they have opened the door to Wales and Ireland to make them really have to beat France well this weekend.
They should be able to do it. If they create half the number of chances they did against Scotland this weekend and convert them, they will comfortably beat a France side that doesn’t look anywhere near good enough to win at Twickenham. And yet, if the French finally click, then you never know…
England will be in the advantageous position of knowing exactly what they need to do to win the title. Ireland sat in that position last season, and did no more than they had to. It is a massive advantage, and one that makes England obvious favourites going into the weekend.
What they need to do: Beat France by however many points the Wales and Ireland results leave them needing.
Chances of winning the title: 9/10
Loading ...By Jamie Hosie
Follow Jamie on Twitter: @jhosie43
Photo by: Patrick Khachfe / Onside Images
86 replies on “Who will be crowned the 2015 Six Nations champions?”
” It is a massive advantage, and one that makes England obvious favourites going into the weekend.” – Thank you for not trying to dress that up. Lots of BS floating around about how it can be a disadvantage to know, an advantage to now know, etc. It’s not. Knowing is best. It’s not England’s fault, it’s the daft tournament organisation and the broadcasters. But it is an advantage (and has been for us in the past).
It’s an advantage if we don’t have a points difference to chase ala Ireland last year.
Not convinced England have it in them to chase a specific number.
I disagree my friend sorry. Englands advantage is also a disadvantage. People write france off. Yes they won’t win 6 Nations but they have this special talent of shocking the world in one good game. Ireland have the best chance. Wales will beat italy but not by 35-40 points. Ireland can put 20+ points on the scots. I believe france will defeat England
Very dismissive of a Scotland side who are not only unlucky to be on zero wins, but also have not lost at home by more than 8 for over 12 months – and that includes a game against New Zealand.
jayce12, in no way is it England’s disadvantage to play last. There is no set of results that will make it worse for England to play last. If Ireland/Wales win by cricket scores then England will still know what they need to do, even if it’s impossible.
I don’t think it’s an advantage to know. I think it’s an advantage to Wales going first and not having the pressure. Pressure is a big factor in top level sport. In cricket most one day internationals are won by the team batting first.
I think Ireland is at the disadvantage.
Wales know before the game they need a cricket score; they can’t see we need 32pts or whatever but they know they need as may as they physically can accomplish and not to stop for 80minutes no matter what.
England will play last and know they need 1pt – 10pts or 20pts and they can plan there 80minutes accordingly whether they need to constantly push for the try line or if going for 3pts will be enough to tick it along.
Ireland are in a similar position to wales, they don’t know exactly what they need to beat England but they’ll know what they need to beat Wales. Well maybe by the 2nd half depending on any stoppages in the wales game.
But i think knowing is only a minor factor, i don’t think there is any team that will play to win by a small margin regardless of what the other teams are doing, you play to win every game and to win by as many points as possible. That factor should only affect any early decision whether to go for 3 or the lineout, or maybe in the last 10minutes if they gamble a little more than is safe.
If it was me I see two scenarios
– I have no idea how much I need to score, so assume a hatload. Cue a frantic game where I put myself under massive pressure to reach some unknown target that I just assume is “huge”
– I know exactly how much I need to score. It is either a) too much so go all out or b) achievable so I can structure my game (e.g. grind first 40 then bring fast boys on).
So for me going first would be the most pressure as I would not have a clue what to do. Isn’t cricket first/second mostly dictated by how teams think the wicket will fare over the few days and for a new wicket the team going second has to cope with a beaten up one so the ball is wilder and hence harder to anticipate? I’m not a cricket expert/fan but that is how I understood it – I know there is some pressure in there but I don’t think it is the same thing.
As previous pts diff games have shown, the team that plays last tends to win the titles by doing just enough to get the pts they know they need e.g. Wales 2013, Ireland 2014.
Brighty, on the cricket front you are not quite responding to the format of the game which twelvestocks was talking about, he was referring to one day cricket rather than test cricket over several days but you are still essentially correct, a cricket captain will choose to bat or bowl first depending on how he thinks conditions will be during the course of the match and to some extent whether they want to set a target or chase one.
Twelvestocks, simply not true, in one day cricket, its pretty much 50:50 as to whether the side batting first wins or not, for example, in the current world cup it is exactly evens to date with 22 games won by the team batting first and 22 games won by the team batting second.
You’re right Liono. I was basing it upon something from years ago and it was a particular tournament so I will withdraw the analogy. I’m still not convinced it’s an advantage going last on Saturday though, but we will see!
You are probably right from a historical perspective, certainly as the one-day game has evolved, batting first has become less important, but in the days when 250 or thereabouts was a good score, chasing a decent total was never easy.
I would definitely agree with you on the rugby, not a clear advantage at all, would say it depends on what we need, go into the game knowing that a win of less than a score is going to be much easier than a scenario where we need a big win, then the advantage certainly starts to wane somewhat.
I’m going to put it out there – I don’t think all three of Wales, Ireland & England will win this weekend. They all need to worry far more about the two points for a win and see what happens after.
England with best chance to win 6 nations don’t think this team are chokers or jokers won fair and square against Wales with great 2nd half
Love to see my land of my fathers Cymru am byth but good luck to the poms at Twickers and my family at Hereford
Taff down under
A staggering 240% chance that the title will be awarded. You hear coaches and players talk about the mythical 110%, but this is another level!
Indexing your chances, you get:
France: 8%
Wales: 29%
Ireland: 25%
England: 38%.
France won’t win. They’ll be out of it before they kick off, so I’m not going to include them in my analysis.
Italy put in a good performance against Scotland. Scotland put in a good performance against France. France put in a good performance against Italy. But what is interesting is how they’ve performed against the other two challengers.
Italy have lost by 23 points at home (Ireland) and 30 points away (England). They’re at home again this week, so possibly closer to 23 than 30, so 25? Would not be enough for Wales if Ireland win by 5 or England win at all.
Scotland have lost by 3 points at home (Wales) and 12 points away (England). They’re at home again this week, so possibly closer to 3 than 12, so 7? Would not be enough for Ireland if Wales win by 28 or England win by 3.
France have lost by 7 points away (Ireland) and 7 points at home (Wales). 7 again? That would be enough for England unless Wales win by 33 or Ireland win by 12.
England wouldn’t be daunted by kicking off needing a 7 point win at home. Wales will need to be targeting 35-40 and Ireland 15-20 to put real pressure on England.
I kind of have the opposite view about the running order. If Wales or Ireland post a decent target England will feel like they’re playing with a handicap. And France would like nothing more than to spoilt their party!
People think England don’t have a score to chase. Let’s say my
previous statements incorrect. (I hope ireland wins btw) but let’s say Wales win by a record 64 points. Where does that leave England with a 30+ point margin to chace. That’s possible yes but unlikely. But that’s why England are disadvantaged.
My vote is Wales. Parisse has indicated he could shake off a foot injury but even so is likely to be well short of his best as a result. The Italians are will also be without Matias Aguero and Tommaso Allan
If Parisse doesn’t play Italy will roll over and even if he does he will be much less effective. Wales have some great try scorers but until now have been stymied by a game plan that hasn’t freed them up. Gats will let them have their head against Italy, he has nothing to lose. I can see a 50+ win.
France always have one good game in them, it will be tight at Twickenham. England by 7. . Scotland at home will be tough for Ireland.my guess is 10 points difference.
I feel like im suffering from Deja Vu
I mean can anyone else feel the echos of last year reverberating through this years tournament.
Last year France played dreadfully but were still in with a remote chance going into the final weekend
this year France have played dreadfully but are still in with a remote chance going into the final weekend
Last year England played first and needed to post a cricket score away against Italy to overhaul Ireland points difference advantage
This year Wales play first and need a cricket score away against Italy to overhaul England’s points difference advantage
Last year Ireland knew they just needed to win against France with a better points difference to be crowned champions
This year England will know they need to win against France with a better points difference to be crowned champions
Yes, but what has been great is the excitement that got us here. Two unexpected results in Cardiff (loss to England, beat Ireland), Italy beating Scotland and the close game of Ire v Eng. Can’t fault the tournament this year for keeping it interesting.
For me Ireland stand the best chance yet paradoxically out of the 3 this is where I see the main chance of an upset. If it goes to form and they win by 2 scores, I just can’t see England chasing down a 10 to 15 point margin. I think it unlikely Wales will get enough points to worry England.
But in all honesty whoever is crowned champion I think it will be fairly nominal as what this championship ha shown is that they is precious little between the 3 top sides. I imagine England will be desperate for some signs of progression having been runners up for past 3 years, but it would be fairly cosmetic IMO.
Same as roy – think Wales will sneak this. Scotland is a tricky place to lay a big score and brilliant as Ireland have been at times, they aren’t scoring many tries. Equally France are a awkward prospect, even at home, and I see us winning by 7ish points. I would back a resurgent Wales, getting better with each game, to lay 30/40 points on an exhausted Italy.
Genuinely surprised England are being touted as favourites. Ireland to turn the screw on a Scotland side that started the campaign full of confidence but have fared no better than last season.
One thing you haven’t considered for any of these matches is the one thing which is often the most inconsistent. The referees! Depending on who is refereeing each match, and their interpretation of certain rules within the game could have a massive impact on each game.
After posting my last comment I decided to check who the ref’s were for the final round. Italy vs Wales – Chris Pollock. Scotland vs Ireland – Jerome Garces. England vs France………………Steve Walsh!! Are you serious?! Well I suppose it’s still better than Alain Roland!
Nigel Owens is the ref for the England v France game. Think he replaced Walsh after he pulled out of Wales V Ireland. But if he was ref England would be screwed!
Oh thank god. I was prepared to just give up when I saw Steve Walsh’s name.
That is a relief. Rather pleased Walsh didn’t ref Wales v Ireland either – it probably wouldn’t have been nearly as good a game!
That is a huge relief!! Owens could make the game more entertaining as well!
Looks like England (or anybody else) will ever have to have Steve Walsh as a ref even again
http://www.espn.co.uk/super-rugby-2015/rugby/story/259815.html?CMP=OTC-RSS;utm_medium=twitter;utm_source=twitterfeed
There is an excellent tribute video out already…. made me chuckle anyway!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKtwuztDyQs
Wales will do it. Sorry to say that being an England fan, but we have flattered to deceive, and they have just got better every game!
I got wales to rack up a huge score against Italy (shock eh :p)
But if we took wales out of the running for arguments sake; I still think Italy would take it over England. The 5pt difference is marginal at best; a singular try. Scotland or France – well France still have something to play for – even though it’s slim to nothing they will be pushing to put themselves in close or atleast 2pt behind so they aren’t going to roll over for England. Scotland well they would obviously like a win but they must know Ireland isn’t going to give them it and will most likely fade in the 2nd half.
So I think the odds in my eyes would be Wales – Ireland – England.
With that said though; i think this tournament they have been quite equal,
England beat Wales by 5, lost to Ireland by 10 (-5)
Wales lost to England by 5, beat Ireland by 7 (+2)
Ireland beat England by 10, lost to wales by 7 (+3)
France has lost 2 games by 7pts
Scotland has 7, 3 & 12 = so approx 6.25pt (say 7 to make life easier)
Italy has 3losses, 30, 29 & 23 = so approx 27.3pt (so 27pt)
If we say England & Ireland both won by 7; wales need to be Italy by 33pt and with a potentially hampered Parisse? I think that’s doable.
You seem to love your stats but like to pick and choose the ones that help your point of view and ignore the ones that don’t such as:
Of the seven previous times Wales have played Italy in Rome in the Six Nations they have an average PD of +8.4 and a max PD of +30 and min PD of -8
Expand that to include all the home fixtures on even numbered years ave +15.9 max +39 min -8
Therefore to get >30 PD likely to be required they are going to have to set a new record
I made that point in another thread; stats can be used to prove anything lol – yes the ones im looking at favor Wales. At the same time the above were purely this year because you train for this 6nations perhaps differently than past; injuries affect this years games not last etc
As it stands ways is 21pts behind Ireland, 25pts behind England. England beat Italy by 30pts; Ireland beat them by 23pts – So to say Wales can’t produce a similar result seems unreasonable; hell France managed 29pt if wales just managed to hit 30pt and Ireland win by 7 and England by 3 – Wales win the tournament.
The Ireland & England games are likely smaller margins for the win, yes it’s possibly they could win by 20+ but the current trend expects around 7pt each (excluding final game drive) The Italians heavily rely upon Parisse; not just for ability with the ball for as a kind of focal figure within the squad itself; if he is not at his best then Italy may play worse than they already have; opening the door to a bigger win margin.
I can’t predict what will happen im just saying what I see coming; Wales to win big by more than 35, Ireland & England to win by around 7pt each.
I do think wales could easily win by 30 points if they play to their potential but i also think that the game on Saturday was very physical and hugely tiring.
A couple of injuries to the front row also makes me think they will struggle to get dominance in the set piece which is an important platform for building a big score and could potentially give Italy a few kickable penalties eating into the margin.
In short
Is it possible yes
Is it likely no
England to win
A Scots win against Ireland. Their defense can’t be worse and their attack seems to be improving. Ireland don’t have that good a record in Murrayfield and will be out on their feet after last weekend. Scots by 7
For Wales, I’m predicting a 2007 style defeat against the Italians. The Welsh will be knackered and taking the Italians for granted. They’ll try to throw the ball around to beat England’s point difference and will come unstuck as the Italians try to salvage something from the tournament. Italians by 3
England will finally click and equal or better their best winning margin against the French (37 points in 1911) leaving them in their rightful position at the top of of the table…
To paraphrase the great Kevin Keegan, I would love it – LOVE IT – if all that happened.
Alternative take: Games One and Two proceed as you hope but; hearing word of the results, France sense a miracle on the cards and galvanise themselves into making the most of this excellent opportunity. Come match time at Twickenham, the French are the ones finally clicking and reaching their potential, winning a thrilling Le Crunch. Then they not only spoil the English party but also get crowned Champions at HQ (with the REAL trophy) despite playing the most cluelessly of any team.
Struggle to see anything but an England win, but that doesn’t have a lot to do with having confidence in us racking up points.
Assuming England win (which I think we will), Ireland will need to win by 6 away to Scotland. I really don’t think that is an easy task. Ireland aren’t scoring many tries, and Scotland have not been pushed over by anyone in this tournament. Wales only managed to get past them by 3.
Wales I think have more of a chance if Italy are without Parisse, we could see a complete walkover. 30 points is still a hell of a lot though, not to score necessarily but to win by.
I can’t see anyone setting England a particularly tough target, so I think we’ll do it.
I’ve mentioned elsewhere thought that I can’t say I’m too worried either way. As long as England play well, in the same way they’ve been trying to play this 6 nations I’ll be happy enough.
Out of interest, if is ends of equal points difference – what comes next? Tries scored?
Every time I stop and think about this again, I end up with a different winner, even some of the winners of the matches don’t come up the same.
Extremely hard to call, but can have no complaints whatever the result as arguably every one of the three (get lost France) would be worthy champions.
Ireland, for their powerful performances against France and England, only to lose the Grand Slam to a ludicrously dedicated Welsh team in Cardiff.
England, for their hugely impressive win in Wales, their sheer entertainment value against Italy, but comprehensively defeated in Dublin.
Wales, who barring an abysmal second half in the first game (like the abysmal first half in the first game in 2013 – what is it with Wales and the opening fixture!?), have won in Murrayfield and Paris and then.. that game against Ireland.
Couldn’t be more excited about the weekend, couldn’t be more gutted that I’ve got little chance of seeing it all.
Bookies have set the odds on Wales winning at 6/1 – that’s almost worth a cheeky tenner
(England 8/11, Ireland 13/8)
Which bookies?
I’m gonna put £5 on Wales 36-40, Ireland 6-10, England 6-10 at 521.5/1
Me to
That was William Hill.
Nice little accumulator there, i may well do something similar!
Wales??? The best odds that you can get on a Wales Championship are 7/1. If you really believe that will happen you need to put some money on it now.
I honestly can’t see past England, for the simple reason that we can probably all agree that England, Ireland and Wales are roughly on a par.
Of the Ireland and England games, I simply see France at home as the easiest. Although I don’t think it will be “easy”, I don’t see Ireland getting a sufficiently large win to make it tricky for England.
Italy can potentially put up a fight, but Wales have a weak front row, whilst Italy only have a front row (if Parisse is not about), and their points difference is too much.
Head and heart can’t see past a Welsh championship for the following reasons. Wales won’t be complacent in Italy and will be driven on by the ‘big’ win over Ireland. The Italians have had a hard campaign and have lost important players and leaders for this game. It believe that Wales will play within themselves and with composure and build the score at every opertunity, the fans will boo when 1/2penny lines up kicks but it will keep the scoreboard heading in the right direction without being , Italy’s heads drop then North, Williams score a brace each, 30 points plus win. As previously stated Ireland don’t have a god record at Murryfield and Scotland will be desperate to finish on a high in front for their home fans. Scotland have proved that they can score tries and will in this fixture. Going to be a tight game which could end as a home win, or even a draw. On paper and form England should see off what can only be describe as an indifferent French team, however they always have one ‘good’ game in the 6N. Can see this being the the real upset with a French win. Not fanciable thinking as I am sure some of you will comment but a considered outcome to the end of what has been a good 6Nations.
This idea that ireland have a bad record in murrayfield is something of a myth to be honest. We have only lost there once since 2001 and that was in 2013 when we had a huge injury crisis and the team was in a downward spiral. In fact we have had some huge wins at murrayfield over the recent years , some of our best away performances indeed have been in edinburg , and i expect the same on saturday but wales may just have the edge over a lack lustre itialian side. Ireland in fairness can’t really complain as they had several chances to put the welsh away and just couldn’t click out if the negative game plan that messiah schmidt has imposed. I am personally still not convince of the merits of mr schmidt in the long term as i feel we have actually gone back wards since last season and if this trend continues we could fall flat on our faces at the w c .
Ireland’s last big win in Scotland (+27) was 2005. Since then there have been wins by 1, 3 and 7, and a loss. They’ll probably need to recreate that game from a decade ago to do enough.
Can’t see scotland losing that many points at murrayfield, we’re a tough bunch of losers
I don’t think Wales will get enough points to overtake England
England will scrape enough pay frame to sneak the title
Reckon Wales ate the last likely to be upset though
weekday a fantastic tournament this had been
A lot (not all) of Wales fans seem confident that Wales will pick up their biggest ever win in Italy (bigger than that of the grand slam team in 2005), and some are predicting Italy’s worst home defeat in Six Nations history – all without both first-choice props. I note it’s only arrogance when England fans make such claims about their team. 😉
Glad you added the “not all” there…
As we get closer I’m edging towards an Irish championship just because of the old reason of assuming the French will turn up at some point and each rubbish performance seems to (irrationally) increase the chances of the next one being the good one.
Wales will do ok in Italy I think but I don’t see us racking up a cricket score. As far as I’m concerned we’re a massive outside bet for the title as it primarily relies on others stuffing up.
Would leave Ireland just needing a tidy, but not huge, win in Scotland which I think is most likely. If Ireland need to chase pts it could be interesting given that they haven’t showed any ability to do so this year so far.
Not sure when the last time France supposedly “Turned up” was but i feel it was closer to PSA’s playing days than his coaching days.
They are still a decent team who are not easy to beat but when they have won in recent years its been distinctly lacking in french flair
Yeah, but that’s exactly why this weekend could be the one! How typical of French rugby to pull it out of the hat, at HQ, after all these years?
I think France are the team we raise our game for – we seem to get some decent wins against them even if the England team is in pretty bad shape.
Let’s not forget that it’s probably 3 years since England had a complete game. So France may turn up, but if England turn up and start putting away those chances – who knows?
Can’t see Welsh win on points difference as they are starting too far behind. I think England will struggle with France so it has to be Ireland for me. Obviously would prefer an English win!
I agree Geat. The only team that is accused of ARROGANCE is always England. It seems that Pom-bashing is no longer just the preserve of Australia. It seems to have spread like a novo-virus, highly toxic and infectious! Little evidence for it (apart from Easter’s claims of turning up just for the money! Was even that arrogance? I think not. More like unprofessionalism!
I have never seen nor heard of actual cases of English players mouthing off saying they are the best etc! (The real definition of arrogance or strutting around like it)
All come across to me as normal and humble blokes.
Case of sour grapes more like and having a pop at the team/nation that regularly performs 1st or 2nd in 6N for last who knows how many years – fact! (though they have some advantages like biggest player base but so what – it doesn’t equate to arrogance by a country mile! Dictionaries could be handed out free at the next game at Twickers for the education of all those invisible accusers thumbnailed at the correct page (A is for arrogance) French on the other hand might qualify for the accolade as it is practically a national trait.
Pretty funny. The old “everyone calls us arrogant but really we are not and everyone else is for calling us it” circular argument.
I don’t care who is or isn’t arrogant but your diatribe Alex is worth a basic rebuttal based in facts. Ben Foden saying it was time to “put little brother Wales in their place” = arrogance. The RFU investigating moving Eng v Fra to the end if every championship as it is undoubtedly the decider = arrogance. Ditto for going off an investigating playing Sanzar instead for some “decent competition”. You can find examples for all countries no doubt but don’t claim that your country never do it when they do – and then a nice little bit of casual racism at the end. Nice one.
I think the point, Brighty, is that it’s only considered arrogant when England make the statements that all countries (especially the fans) make from time to time.
But that’s not true. This weekend Neil Francis and Keith Wood got loads of grief in Wales for being “arrogant”. Gats has been called it by all and sundry. Warburton was accused of it when he said “win the Grand Slam” in an interview after the last WC when he was asked how he was going to move on from the semi final defeat.
It’s just another form of arrogance to assume that only the English get accused of it 😉
Also my specific points to Alex still stand – to try and say there is no evidence of anyone in English rugby ever being arrogant is plainly absurd, especially when said with such dripping sarcasm.
And at the end of the day, who cares? One man’s arrogance is another mans total confidence. Eye of the beholder.
No one calls Gatland arrogant. He’s just a dick, who looks like he’s had all the air let out of him and then been really poorly re-inflated.
Lol that is extreme, in that case Lancaster is just a granny’s vag a week overdue of another Brazilian
Alex, you’re quite right about the “arrogance” label. Frankly, its just lazy stereotyping.
Speaking of which; is that not exactly what you are doing with your reference to the French?
I think England get alot of the arrogance comments because of there football team more than rugby. I think most Rugby fans (and players) are less arrogant and just more “confident”?
I am a supper of Wales and will always support them and fancy there chances in any match (yes even against the might NZ) but with that said I don’t think saturday’s outcome is determine who is the greatest, 4 out of 5 is a quality accomplishment (assuming the 3 with 3 get wins) and in a WC year I think it’s great.
I can’t wait for the WC and Eng v Wales game, part of me hopes both get out of the group (along with Ireland & Scotland in theres) so the knockout stage becomes a six nations infront of a bigger audience.
Do I want Wales to win? Of course, but i think this weekend Wales can do it – but if they don’t I think it’ll be Ireland. France just seems like to harder to rack up a big score in comparison to Scotland.
supper = supporter – my typing failed me 🙁
Brighty you’re doing it on here mate. I’m not going round saying “England are the best” just be nice if they were and were to win on Saturday!
Right? As you are happy for Wales to be! It’s normal with ones nation.
Let’s all call a spade a spade and stop the semantics. England per se Brighty are not arrogant. Stop with the generalisations! They are a team of 15 players and squad of 32 and a nation of god knows how many. Go and knock on Foden’s door or take it up with his club. He is one individual which doesn’t make ‘ENGLAND’ (whatever that means……)arrogant or racist)
You might get a fright if England was allowed to be patriotic/nationalist like Wales/Scotland etc. I think we could have a ‘special’ song at the beginning before the anthem too! I’d choose Land of hope and Glory or Jerusalem! Just think how worked up and excited that would make ‘England’. Might be the equivalent of extra 5 points as they say the Haka is to NZ.
Response to Blub
OMG have you ever been to France or spoken to a Frenchman in your best franglais? The reaction? Dismissive and yes arrogant!
As for the RFU Brighty (u mean the English RFU I presume!) What is your point? Yes they are the bureaucrats who arrange the scheduling (25 people in an office) Doesn’t make ENGLAND arrogant, racist or anything mate! It’s quite a lot of people you’ re branding with your stick!
Alex, try going and actually reading what I said. I did not say England were arrogant. You said “I have never seen nor heard of actual cases of English players mouthing off saying they are the best etc!” – to which I gave you a concrete example to counter your made up fact. I did not “generalise”, I was specific. You need to read things more slowly to take them in.
Ah .. the tired old “we’re not allowed to be patriotic but the other nations are” cliche. A load of old victim culture nonsense. You can be as patriotic as you want and, in my experience, undoubtedly are.
Wales don’t have a “special” song at “the beginning before the anthem” so I have no idea what yo are on about there.
Hilarious though to see you’re very keen on nobody generalising “ENGLAND” but then you tell Blub that you’ve met some rude Frenchmen so your opinion that “the French” are dismissive and arrogant must be correct. You’re keen on telling people to look things up in dictionaries. Try looking up “irony”.
I didn’t brand anyone with any stick. I’m not your mate.
Brighty having a go at the French is not Racist. We are both predominantly Caucasian countries (as is their team when u look at it) I know that the definition of the word has ‘exploded’ to encompass almost everything nowadays bar blowing your nose (causing other problems in society to boot like making someone like Jeremy Clarkson so popular b’cos he tells PC correctness to go jump in the river) Let’s not go down that one right now. Definitions are precise for a reason (sorry, apart from when political correctness takes over and alters them!) Guess I’m not PC.
Of course Alex, all of this is just political correctness gone mad. How we all secretly long for the days when we could make lazy stereotypical jokes about every country in Europe. Where’s the harm in such sweeping generalisations, aye? Next someone will complain about the English being called arrogant. PC nonsense to complain about that.
No you’re just anti English Brighty (either that or you think I represent a particular class of Englishman that you have a bee in your. On net about! You’ve been found out On this site mate! Too much sounding off with your own trumpet. It’s 10 times a day on every thread and story! try staying off for more than three seconds.
Sorry shod have read “bee in your bonnet” ref Brighty!
Anyone whose BRITISH In any shape or form should ‘stick more or less together’ in my mind and stop making distinctions let alone accusing THE ENGLISH of being arrogant.
The welsh word for England is Lloegyr meaning “lost lands”. Please correct me if I’m wrong Brighty! It heralds from post Roman invasion days (parts of N.Wales were the last to be conquered once England or Albion/Alba had taken the brunt and succumbed (no shame there having done most of the fighting and dying under Caratacus)
Lloegyr would suggest that there was no Welsh/England divide at all. History lesson over! It’s what you want to make of it today! Don’t perpetuate some myth of divisive hatred when we’re the same ( more similar than you’d like to admit at any rate)
I’m probably more Celtic than you anyway! Ha ha. Yes you did read that here!
Quarter Scottish
Quarter Irish
Half English.
Im not sure i understand the point in your history lesson, by your reckoning we are the same as India and well most of the world since the UK once held control over most lands.
As a welsh lad who got stick for being welsh my teen years onwards living in england yes there plenty of “hatred” out there – not all but there is plenty although personally i think it has nothing to do with rugby, this is no different than club’s. It’s a fun rivalry which is kind of the point; if everyone played friendly the 6nations would be boring. I always look forward to the scotland v england game or wales v ireland because we get rugby and some side fun to go with it.
People need to stop taking things so damn seriously; rugby is a game personally im giving everyone a +1 for loving rugby over football, makes u all good ppl in my book
That’s the first post of yours I’ve agreed with all week, Michael! 😉
One last reply to you Alex because I’m not keen on letting unfounded accusations like yours lie unanswered.
Not at any single moment in any of my replies have I accused “THE ENGLISH of being arrogant”.
As you know a bit of Welsh I expect you also understand “twp” and “ti’n pwll du”.
“Don’t perpetuate some myth of divisive hatred when we’re the same ( more similar than you’d like to admit at any rate)” – All I can say about this is that you are the dumbest person I have ever met on the internet, which is a hell of an achievement given how much I’m on it. You cannot read. You make things up. You have issues. Best of luck with them.
Bravo Brighty! Now, back to the rugby.
We’re all polyglots and proud of it!
Michael – The history lesson was not England’s rule over anyone back then (talking post 43 AD). There was no Wales or England as we know them now just tribes. Nations came later (much later like 1000 yrs or more) No one behaving in a ‘colonial’ fashion whatsoever! Modern day Wales and England were the same (in fact Caradoc or Caratacus hid out with the northern ‘welsh’ tribes (I use the term ‘welsh’ loosely to describe the geographical location in a way that means something to modern readers) The ‘welsh’ tribes of whom I speak were called the Silures, Deceangli and Ordovices and populated pre-roman Wales. They fought with and for Caratacus who came from a South Eastern tribe (happened to be in modern England where it’s capital was Colchester called Camulodunum or Camulos then!) His tribe was the Catuvellaunii but he fought by uniting the tribes against Rome! successfully for 10 yrs. No nations involved as Brits didn’t have one. We were a bit like the aborigines of whom I understand there are many groups particularly in Arnhem Land. Rome arguably was a nation – perhaps the first! We can blame them!
I don’t think i mentioned england’s rule, i said UK :p but again I can’t for the life of me figure out what anything your saying has to do with Rugby or the 6nations.
Italy team just announced over on the 6nations website and confirms Parisse will not be playing at all following scan his injury is not serious but will rule him out for this game.
(below quote from rbs6nation website)
The 31-year-old is replaced in the starting XV by flanker Mauro Bergamasco as Samuela Vunisa switches to No.8.
Still think Italy have enough to dog it out in defense for large periods Michael. Encouraging to see speedster (and top Pro 12 try scorer last year) Davies on the bench instead of Spikey but still don’t see us winning by more than 25. Wales just don’t do the “hammering” thing often enough.
As of today I expect the final order to be:
Ireland
England
Wales
Wow. When did this blog turn into a cut and paste from Wikipedia session
Don’t suppose there’s any chance of getting back to the rugby is there?
I’m going for the Scots to cause an upset against an Irish team who appear stilted and lacking in imagination if their ‘boot the leather off the ball and chase it’ tactic doesn’t work
Wales to score a reasonable hatful of points but not quite enough to pip England who will beat France by 5-7 points (please!)
Think the Welsh and Irish will both win, but not by enough to secure a serious advantage.
However this will be immaterial for England, who will get mugged by an inexplicably excellent French side. I’ve been saying since I saw the fixtures that wins away against Wales or Ireland would mean nothing because we’d lose to France in the final game at HQ. And all this points difference maths only adds to the pressure.
Ireland to (deservedly) win.
A not more Welsh coal for the Fire. Reading SL’s what for a war cry it is clear, unless mid-quoted, that he does not see Wales as a contender for the championship. I quote “it’s unique and depending on how Ireland do, we could well need the twickenham supporters to lift us and drive us over the line”. Arrogant or forgetful? Ding-dong
Could be a cunning double bluff to fire up Wales to put enough past Italy to subsequently put pressure on Ireland (but obviously not quite enough points to put pressure on us as well)?
????
Of course, if France were to beat England by 8, then SL could find England finishing fourth…
Spooky or what. I predicted before the start that it would be between England and France for 4th place. The three ??? We’re suspose to have been a smiley face.