On the back of our polls to select the England team yesterday, it’s clear that Eddie Jones has a few tough selection decisions to make ahead of the Autumn Internationals fixtures this month.
Stephen Jones said in the Sunday Times that Jones needs to be settling on his first-choice team now that we’re less than two years from the Rugby World Cup in Japan, and it appears there are some areas where selection is anything but clear. In some positions, there is a plethora of talented players, whilst in others, the depth appears insufficient.
Front row
One huge decision is at hooker, where TRB readers have backed Jamie George with 68% of the vote, over incumbent captain Dylan Hartley. It is becoming increasingly difficult to make a case for Hartley now that other leaders have emerged in the group, and on the back of George’s impressive performances for both Saracens and the Lions. Now feels like an appropriate time to make a change, perhaps with Owen Farrell taking on the captaincy.
At loosehead prop, Jones can choose between Mako Vunipola and Ellis Genge for Saturday’s match, both strong options, and it feels like Genge would be worth a look given that we already know what Mako can do. Both should see some reasonable game time, and with Joe Marler still to return from a ban, England’s options here are particularly healthy.
Whilst Dan Cole is the obvious choice at tighthead prop with Kyle Sinckler unavailable, the depth at No. 3 feels slightly weaker. Harry Williams will likely make his debut from the bench, and hopefully he can establish himself as a capable understudy at the very least – the likes of Paul Hill and Kieran Brookes have not quite managed to do that in recent years.
My picks: 1. Genge, 2. George, 3. Cole
Second row
England’s abundance of riches in the engine room are second to none, with Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Maro Itoje and George Kruis all with reasonable claims to world-class status when at their best. Nick Isiekwe is another intriguing option here, who some people think can have a similar impact to Itoje, and with so many to choose from, the second row selection discussion must also include the debate about who plays in the back row.
Itoje is one of the first names on the teamsheet regardless of position, and I believe he plays best in the second row – so that’s one spot gone already. On current form, Courtney Lawes should be his partner, with Launchbury and Kruis right behind him, in that order.
My picks: 4. Itoje, 5. Lawes
Back row
Without Billy Vunipola, the options at Number 8 are slightly concerning. Nathan Hughes will wear that jersey, but we need more depth here and Sam Simmonds could see plenty of match time over the next few weeks to see if he can establish himself as the third option alongside Vunipola and Hughes.
Chris Robshaw should feature on one flank, but having cast aside James Haskell and Tom Wood, the other back row candidates seem very raw. Perhaps the ejection of Haskell and Wood from the squad is a reflection of the esteem in which Sam Underhill is held, and we could well see the Bath man at openside on Saturday. I understand that big things are also expected of Tom Curry, but whilst I admit I haven’t seen a huge amount of him in action, he feels like a longer-term option – at just 19, can he really cement a place in the squad ahead of the World Cup?
My picks: 6. Robshaw, 7. Underhill, 8. Hughes
Scrum-half
Ben Youngs is the runaway leader in the readers’ poll, with 79% of the vote compared to Danny Care’s 21%. Why there aren’t other scrum-halves such as Joe Simpson or Dan Robson in the squad is something of a mystery, but Youngs and Care have become a dependable double-act in the starter/finisher Jones way.
My pick: 9. Youngs
Midfield
There is an argument to shift Farrell to fly-half to free up a spot in the centres, but I disagree with it. Farrell’s partnership with George Ford has been a feature of the Jones era, and it makes sense to stick with it through to 2019.
So there’s only one spot available at 13, and whilst Henry Slade appears to be favoured by the poll, I would pick Jonathan Joseph. He’s more of a handful in attack, solid in defence and something doesn’t feel quite right about having fly-halves playing at 10, 12 AND 13!
My picks: 10. Ford, 12. Farrell, 13. Joseph
Back three
There are some question marks over the fitness of some of the back three contenders, but on form, Elliot Daly and Jonny May would be my starting wingers. I expect the former to achieve world class status over the next 24 months, whilst the latter has started his Tigers career in remarkable fashion.
Finally at full-back, Jones has to make another big call, second only to the captain/hooker decision – does he stick with Mike Brown, or rather look at Anthony Watson or Daly at 15? I’m a fan of Brown, and believe he does exactly the job he has been asked to do for England, but my head is being turned by the prospect of change and a more effective distributor at the back, which could revolutionise the counter-attacking potential.
My picks: 11. May, 14. Daly, 15. Watson
What do you think of my picks? And what do you think Jones will do in the key areas highlighted here?
Very similar train of thought to my team, with two differences – I thought Daly would be out injured so didn’t pick him, but if he is available I would have him at 15 rather than Watson. I like Daly’s kicking game and think he is probably a more rounded player for fullback than Watson (who I would still like to see given a chance, just to pick between the two).
And have to disagree with the Joseph/Slade conundrum. I really rate Joseph but Slade has been in such good form and is more than just a playmaker – strong defence, huge boot and his attack has been fantastic: he runs great lines, is quicker than most people think and I don’t think he really concedes much on Joseph in that aspect right now.
I think the fact that Slade is ‘something’ of a playmaker is what turns me against him as an option outside Ford and Farrell. Joseph knows what his role is and what his strengths are, and does them very well – possibly without worrying about the overall attacking shape, or what the next move is from the breakdown.
Not sure if that makes sense, because I still want every player to think on their feet and play what’s in front of them – but we’re in danger of filling our whole backline with utility players and a lack of specialists.
Personally I’d pick Joseph over Slade. For me Slade is battling with Ford to pair with Farrell in the 10/12 options and the familiarity those two have just edges it.
Whilst Slade does have more to his game, his instinct is to move the ball whereas we need someone outside of Ford/Farrell that wants to hit a line and carry more often.
That may be Slade’s instinct but he’s been curbing it at 13. He’s running into contact an awful lot, passing and kicking less (that’s not based on stats, just the impression I get watching). To the point where I’ve been willing him to try a pass at times.
You could argue he’s not being played to his strengths as he tends not to go around the defence or through it as well as other carriers might. But he does make hard yards more often than not, and can still unleash his playmaking skills as and when.
Meanwhile, his defensive/physical work has stepped up a level.
That’s the last thing I’d want to see! Slade’s instinct with ball in hand is as good as anyone in the Northern Hemisphere, but it’s just better paired with people running off him.
I would love to see how a Farrell/Slade axis at 10 and 12 goes this AI series but I still think in innate understanding that Ford/Farrell has makes it slightly more preferable.
I’m not entirely convinced with Lawes and Itoje as the starting partnership in the second row. Whilst I agree that they are the form players at the moment, there is still something to be said for player combinations and I have always thought that out of those four, Itoje and Lawes are quite similar and Launchbury and Kruis are also similar and therefore your ideal starting combinations are one of the first two with one of the second as the first two bring something different to the latter?
Not sure I agree with that completely. Kruis and Lawes are the two that call the line out so surely they are the two you pick from in that regard? Itoje can at a stretch, but ideally I would say his work around the park is closer to Launchbury and therefore that pairing isn’t ideal.
It’s only really physique that the split in the way you mentioned. Lauchbury and Kruis both looks a bit stockier, whilst Lawes and Itoje have leaner physiques. On style of play though, that’s isn’t really how the split.
I tend to think of Launchbury as a bigger version of Robshaw, they seem to do quite similar jobs. If Lawes or Itoje was to play at 6, I’d then want Launchbury in the 2nd row compensating for that Robshaw work ethic. The other of Lawes or Itoje next to him on current form.
What is interesting is that Robshaw was seen packing down at 8 in Bristol and many are seeing that as an indicator for Saturdays starting lineup.
Given we have Hughes and Simmonds in the squad it makes zero sense to me
My assumption was that it meant Simmonds won’t be in the 23 and therefore Robshaw will move there is Hughes has to come off for whatever reason. It’s fairly normal to plan for that I’d imagine.
Leads me to think that Tom Curry might be on the bench. Or, he might put all four locks in the 23 and have Itoje/Lawes cover the back row?
yes it sounds about right to me but i would guess that 4 locks is more likely
Mind games from the master of psychology. I’m sure we’ll see CR6 at six!
Re the locks, I’d go Lawes / Launchbury,especially as EJ has challenged Lawes to up his game. He can’t do that from the bench.
I’m pretty sure Harry Williams has already made his debut? He was immense starting against Argentina despite the quins loving media raving about collier’s cameo from the bench… Slade hasn’t played 10 or 12 for quite some time… He’s ripping up trees at 13, and both are part of a winning team and culture…
Yeah I was going to say, Harry Williams started both tests in Argentina and was solid in the scrum and generally good around the park!
Jones has told Slade to focus on 13 at his club so presumably that’s what he wants from him for England now.
Yes, I’m sorry. I had it in my head that he would be capped this month, and didn’t look it up. The front row selection for those two tests passed me by somewhat!
My only change would be Slade for JJ and Daly 15 and Watson 14.
Why? To prove the Ford/Farrell/Slade experiment and Daly is smarter and with more skill than Watson, seems much more reliable for me. And what about putting Slade in for Ford ?? Looking to the future, for me it seems that Slade has got a much bigger future than Ford and is better in defence.
Is Daly being “smarter” and “more skilful” a guarantee that he is more reliable at fullback? Watson has played fullback the majority of his career for Bath and also taken up that position with the BIL. This surely makes him a more reliable pick at FB.
Ford and Slade are also the same age, with Ford having achieved so much already. He’s a quality fly-half and has proven so at international level. Slade, as people have stated, plays most of his club rugby at centre and has been, up until this season, somewhat inconsistent. I’m not sure that Slade has done enough in a relatively short period to make it into the starting XV, let alone usurp Ford who has been great for England and club.
I really don’t understand why people are against Slade at 13. he’s played their every game this season and arguably played his best rugby. Just cos he played 10 as an under 20 doesn’t mean he’s a 10 now, honestly when was the last time you remember Slade starting at 10??
Agreed. Other than a touch more speed, I don’t really see what JJ adds that Slade doesn’t – but I do see what Slade has that JJ doesn’t
That said, if we are going to play Slade at 13, I’d like to see Farrell at 10 and someone with a bit of bulk at 12 to offer a different option
I think had Te’o been fit we’d have seen a Farrell, Te’o, Slade line up .
There has been much advocacy advanced in favour of Slade replacing JJ. This would in my opinion would be a mistake as there is a danger of “Too many Cooks in the Kitchen” scenario”-You would get greater creativity but that would be at the expense of the most important ability of the outside backs-Try Scoring. JJ along with Watson & May are Englands best finishers-Proven Fact.With regard to Slade Im sure that EJ has considered the long term possibility of using him as Full Back as he has the necessary skill set particularly in attack where the the full back acts as the auxillary 13. Watson needs to stay on the wing because that is the best place to use his blistering place long with May. The make-up of the replacements bench should give some indication of the Game Plan EJ wishes to use.My personal preference would be to use Macko,Lawes and George from about 50 mins.In the future I hope some space can be found for Nowell as he is a real impact player.As for the captaincy it should stay with Hartley until the World Cup then Itoje can take over-A forward should always be captain as being at the coal face gives one a much better feeling for the tempo of the game.The Girls(Backs) and non players often find this a difficult concept to grasp!.
JS 10
I don’t think any harm can be done by having a look at Slade in the centre. Afterall he’s been on the radar since the last WC and is a stalwart playing for his club. He is of international quality and Eddie needs OPTiONS so give him a go. The AIs are the time to do it and to beat the ABs Eddie needs two more options for every place. Look at the ABs now with McKenzie at 15 and its as if we never even missed Smith. Julian Savea is number 2 choice and Sopoaga slots in at 10 without so mush as a ruffle. It doesn’t quite happen like that with England yet and it needs to sooner rather than later. The two year clock is ticking.
As the Ben Youngs article reveals on here, there is good depth but the ‘alternatives’ (the numbers 2 + 3) have not been given the GAMETIME. Now is that time!
Besides JJ didn’t quite do it on tour in NZ which imho is a reflection of his career to date. He is excellent against poorer sides (e.g against Scotland with a try fest) but come the better sides or should i say ‘top’ ones he disappears.
Daley is another who needs at least a couple of outings at centre so that he, we and Eddie know what he can do and how he fares there.
Having a look at the options doesn’t destroy the core if it is done correctly and sensibly.
Not so sure I agree with that. He’s scored tries against France, Wales and he’s got a few against Aus I’m sure. There may be other top sides he’s scored against too but that’s off the top of my head. Sure he has cashed in against Scotland and Italy but that’s no criticism.
As for the Lions tour, he was unfortunate to be stuck behind Jonathan Davies in the form of his life…
He was at his best in combination with Ford and Eastmond at Bath. A shame that it don’t translate to international level but it never got much of a chance and would likely have been too lightweight anyway.
He also spent the lions tour playing outside Laidlaw and Biggar. Neither renowned for getting the best out of their back line. Henshaw has also been said to have had a poor tour. He played with them too!
Hansen allows his team a higher level of collective responsibility. His players reward him for it when as in the game against the Barbarians recently he threw the dice and tried a load of new players and combinations whilst retaining a core of experienced players. The new players slotted in seamlessly with the old. Hansen is not SCARED of doing that with the ABs. Its time for Eddie to do the same.
Slade could even bring more leadership to the backs if and when he plays. He leads from the front at Exeter. JJ by contrast is a bit quiet (both as a person and a player at times). I have even heard that his career progression was hampered by the mental side of the game which he was helped in overcoming with a sports psychologist (not that seeing a sports psych is unusual nowadays).
So lets see what Slade and Daley have to say at centre. Eddie can’t out-muscle NZ in the back division anyway but he can run rings around and through them with pace and precision.
I don’t buy that JJ is quiet as a player. He’s gone about playing pretty well this season, scoring, assisting and defending well. Daly by contrast has not contributed anywhere near as much, if anything. Slade’s form has been very good this season and probably warrants some involvement in th AIs, but he would need to show some consistency at international level before EJ considers keeping him in the team long-term. JJ has been consistent for England.
And if you’re looking for pace, JJ has that in abundance.
The thing with Joseph is that he very rarely lets you down, but doesn’t excel frequently enough. The reason so many on here, including me, would like to see others given a go at 13 is the desire to unearth another Farrell, Itoje or Vunipola – a world 15 candidate. Joseph has never really pushed into that bracket, so can we (at least try to) find someone else? This Autumn is perhaps the last good chance to do that.
Could say the same about fullback and hooker. And elsewhere!
I do think that there is a need to further improve the depth of the squad, and exposing players to 1st class matches will definitely help. But in what situation would Ford-Farrell-Slade play together? With a bigger ball carrier in the mix then maybe it works, and whilst some have said Slade has the ability to straighten and break the gain line, but that isn’t his game. He’s a distributor and a playmaker.
Though the WC rankings have been solidified, the draws done, and these matches may not mean as much as maybe the summer ones last year, its still important that England win them all, and win well. The more wins we can get over these teams the stronger mentally we will be going into the 2019 tournament.
Jake
Apologies for not being clear enough. I meant LITERALLY quiet (not his on pitch performance). My post should make more sense now!
To recap JJ is no leader on the pitch whereas Slade certainly is.
When was the last time Daly played at fullback?Surely Watson would be a more sensible option
For me, Daly at FB is “un gran pelotudo de la gran siete” option. Los Pumas must be licking their lips
The what now?
ask un hincha argentino de rugby
I don’t have one to hand, but Google translate suggests it isn’t complimentary.
hincha is an Argentine supporter of a particular team,so there should be quite a few knocking back a lager or two at HQ
For me, Daly at FB is “un gran pelotudo de la gran siete” option. Los Pumas must be licking their lips
Michael Dennis
Que problemas tienes con Daley! Es jugador bueno no! Corre rapido, tiene un pie impresionante y sabe el juego cien por ciento?
Mira , non tengo problema con el .Es un requete buen jugador pero pienso que no tiene suficiente experiensa para jugar en esa posicion.Para mi Watson seria la mejor opcion
Mira , non tengo problema con el .Es un requete buen jugador pero pienso que no tiene suficiente experiensa para jugar en esa posicion.Para mi Watson seria la mejor opcion
We go England-only and a few days later, there’s Spanish everywhere!
Mr. Fawlty, I no want to work here any more.
Michael Dennis
Si pero no se da la oportunidad a otros no sabemos nada mas, ni Eddie tampoco nosotros o sea la hincha.
Ahora es la hora de experimentar. El reves es que somos ignorantes incluso Eddie. Los ABs crecen el squad todo el tiempo sin problemas y siguen mejorandose.
Bueno, si puedes tener la razon pero me parece algo extraño que en su club no juega en esa posicion.Vamos a ver que pasa
Careful Hutch or you’ll be accused of being a racist….for christsake!
No mention of Herman Goering sausages either!