Luther Burrell is in contention to face Samoa at Twickenham Stadium on Saturday after being named in the group preparing for the third QBE International. The Northampton Saints centre, who scored three tries in the 2014 6 Nations, is among 28 players recalled by Stuart Lancaster to Pennyhill Park.
Intriguingly, the squad list released does not include a group of fly-halves, but rather Owen Farrell and George Ford are listed as ‘outside backs’, which could mean Farrell is set to start at centre with Ford at 10 – a combination Lancaster and his coaches are known to be keen on trying out at some stage this autumn. The Samoa test looks like the most obvious opportunity.
Bath Rugby wing Semesa Rokoduguni has not recovered sufficiently to retake his place in the squad and will remain at the club. Kyle Eastmond suffered concussion towards the end of the match on Saturday and will undergo the Graduated Return To Play protocol in hope of playing against the South Sea Islanders.
In line with the EPS agreement, the squad will be trimmed on Tuesday evening and several players returned to their squads.
England Squad
Loose-head props
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Tight-head props
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Hookers
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Locks
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Back rows
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Scrum halves
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
Outside backs
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Back threes
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)
So picking from these choices, I would play: 1. Mullan, 2. Webber, 3. Brookes, 4. Attwood, 5. Kruis, 6. Vunipola, 7. Haskell, 8. Morgan, 9. Wigglesworth, 10. Ford, 11. May, 12. Eastmond, 13. Burrell, 14. Yarde, 15. Watson. On the bench, 16. Hartley, 17. Marler, 18. Wilson, 19. Lawes, 20. Robshaw, 21. Youngs, 22. Farrell, 23. Brown.
If Farrell still starts, and at centre, I’ll be very disappointed.
Farrell is fast becoming Lancaster’s “Borthwick”!
Ha! Maybe you are right, and Borthwick was dropped less than a year before the World Cup…
Neil he already is.He has just received another ringing endorsement from SL.I am just not comfortable with Dad there.He needs to drop the son to show transparency given his poor form.SL says he picks on form.Oh no he does’nt!
I have been a big fan of Burrell but picking him and leaving out JJ is absolutely mental
You just know its going to be:
Ford
Farrell
Barritt
My heart sinks
I had exactly the same thought and reaction. I just don’t see what the coaches in Barritt. Must be another player like Tom Wood that does a lot of unseen work (aka sweet fa)
Yep. Telegraph and Grauniad both reporting that Farrell & Barritt will be the centres. Jebus wept. Seriously why bother with wings, why not stick another couple of flankers to shore up the defence, I’m mean we already have 2 virtual flankers in the centres.
Surely not Pablito?no one would be that cruel to us rugby nutters would they??Or that stupid!Surely not
From that I’d go with
1. Mullan 2.Webber 3.Wilson 4.Attwood 5.Lawes 6.Haskell 7.Robshaw 8.Morgan 9.Wigglesworth 10.Ford 11.May 12.Eastmond 13.Burrell 14.Yarde 15.Brown
16.Hartley 17.Marler 18.Brookes 19.Kruis 20.Wood 21.Care 22.Farrell 23. Watson
I’d go:
1.Mullan 2.Webber 3.Brookes 4.Attwood 5.Kruis 6.Wood 7.Haskell 8.Morgan 9.Youngs 10.Ford 11.May 12.Eastmond 13.Burrell 14.Yarde 15.Watson
16.Hartley 17.Marler 18.Wilson 19.Lawes 20.Vunipola 21.Wrigglesworth 22.Farrell 23.Brown
Care needs to go after the last two weeks. Youngs people moan about but he injects pace, a good kicking game and some actually good decisions. Desperate for Haskell to get a look in. Offers as much, if not more, than Wood/Robshaw at the breakdown and offers a useful carrier in the tight. Ford I’m still not convinced by at all but if not now then when? Brown and Robshaw have both played a lot of rugby so I’d like to see them sit out.
The likes of Eastmond/May/Watson/Yarde just need game time at this level.
You have to play the best available XV no matter who the opposition is, when you are this far from the World Cup, and have Australia looming and 5 consecutive defeats.
For me, I’d swap Care for Youngs, Ford for Farrell and JJ for Eastmond if he doesn’t make it back in time or for Barritt if Eastmond is able to play.
Samoa isn’t a guaranteed win, but this is one of the few games we have between now and the World Cup where we can actually test out how players like Ford, JJ etc do in this team. Wholesale changes would be wrong in my opinion.
Ford & Farrell has been hyped by Lancaster. We will definitely see this happened, there is nothing stopping him just as he put Manu on the wing. Farrell at centre will probably show a awful display much worst then Twelvetrees & Tomkins pair & i don’t think it matters who is paired with him.
I wish Kitchener & Slade was there & Foden. If they were there i would have
1. Marler 2. Webber 3. Brookes 4. Attwood 5.Kitchener 6. Haskell 7. Robshaw 8.Morgan 9 Youngs 10.Ford 11.May 12. Twevetrees 13. Slade 14. Yarde 15 Foden.
Why would you play 36? Even with Slade? If Barrett and Burrell are fit then one/both of them should play.
I don’t know whether to feel sorry for Farrell. He’s clearly not fit, yet they keep playing him. At the moment SL’s stock is on the slide. His biggest remaining asset is this “culture” he’s cultivated, which is in danger of becoming toxic if the rest of the squad start to believe nepotism is having a hand in selection. So much for picking on form!
For me this squad shows a total lack of plan B, clearly players are struggling individually and in combinations yet SL refuses to change things. Why are they not bringing in a center that can bring the backs into play or attack the line with pace (JJ)? I know Burrell is back but is he match fit? Barritt is not a 13 so why not give one of the form centers this season a chance! Its like we can only play in one way and refuse to try and expand our game to!
Even more worrying is the total lack of a plan A. I’ve no idea what they were trying to do behind the scrum on Sat.
I’ve been thinking a lot recently, what exactly is England’s style of play under Lancaster? With NZ you have a great defensive team with a lethal counterattack, Ireland have a surgical rolling maul and halfbacks who can capitalize on a few opportunities per game. What do England do besides having a solid lineout and scrum?
Well having a solid lineout and scrum is a very good start. They also have a good rolling maul (not everyone scores twice via maul against the Saffas!), can kick penalties and have an excellent defence (I believe they missed 1 tackle last week)
Beyond this I couldn’t tell you and I am not sure SL could either. Where’s the strategy in picking Farrell and Barritt in the centres – what exactly does he expect them to do?
God only knows.
Our set-piece and defence is good. But these are building blocks and I don’t think anyone in the England camp knows how to go build on this base. What is Mike Catt doing? Surely he can’t think that this is a good state of affairs? Does he just get ignored?
I honestly was expecting to read about Farrell being released to find some form/fitness at club level. I’m astounded that he’s guaranteed a spot in the 23, and if it’s so he can act as some kind of wet nurse for Ford from 12 then Ford clearly isn’t ready to be our back up 10 (10 games out from a RWC).
If there’s still any credit left in the bank of Faz I want to open an account there.
As SL has said “were were only 5th in the world ranking when I took over” ….. well guess what …. we are back down to 5th again now. The progress that I thought was evident in the 6N has vaporised.
A slightly different view on the matter;
I believe these games were won and lost before the final whistle. As I stated in a previous post, Northern Hemisphere sides are severley handicapped by the way the fixtures are played, Yes SH sides come here at the end of their season and do not have home advantage but they crucially they come having spent the previous 2.5 months playing the best sides in the world (bar Argentina) week in week out. In comparision, the last time England played together was in early June.
Can you imagine if at the end of the six nations we toured the SH sides, playing one game against each, who hadn’t played a competitive fixture for five months? I think we’d stand a much better chance than the current situation.
I did not believe for one minute England were capable of beating NZ, and i was pessimistic about our chances against SA. This would help (not completely) explain the norths appaling record against the SH sides, the timing of the games played hinder the NH considerably. Conversely this also helps to explain how these NH sides fair better in world cups when it could be argued all sides are on a more level playing field, and how in every world cup final bar one there has been a northern hemisphere side in the final.
England also have the difficult problem (completely self-inflicted) of playing top sides without the requisite experience. though referring to football i wonder if it is relevant to point out that in the book soccernomics Kuper states that having twice as much international experience as your rival is worth just over half a goal. Interestingly he goes on to state that international experience matters more than the size of your country. I wonder how you translate half a goal into a rugby score but it must be worth more than three points, the scoreline which england have lost their last two games…
cant believe it is a matter of principle that we will not pick the European player of the year if other
countries adopted this stance some of them wouldn’t have a team
Well people, if the papers are to be believed and they normally are, we are looking at
10. Ford
12. Farrell
13. Barritt
You couldn’t make it up. They’ll beI have ever seen for England and I’ve seen some classics – Noon, Erinle, Tompkins, Paul, Farrell, Hipkiss
WTF do the England management think will happen with this selection? How can they possibly imagine it will work?
What will it take for Farrell to be dropped to find some form?
There’s an article from Cleary in the Telegraph today about how terrible it is that people are suggesting Farrell is only there due to nepotism. I’d rather that was the case. If its not, then it brings up all kinds of questions about the competency of the England management team
I can see why people are down on the possible combination of Ford, Farrell and Barritt. Ford and Farrell played a lot together in this combination before at U20’s level, and it worked quite well then. I can’t remember who the 13 was at the time, but I’m sure it was a more attacking minded player. So Ford and Farrell I can understand (well I could if Farrell was fit, but I don’t believe he is), but Barritt I don’t get. Unless SL (or Mike Catt as he’s the attack coach) is going to bring the wingers and 15 into the centre more to play that role? I have said before that I would like to see Brown come into the centre channel more in attack, and this could be the perfect chance to try it.
Under 20 is a whole different kettle of fish to a full international. I believe Elliot Daly was normally 13 in that side – that also had Christian Wade on the wing (scoring quite incredible tries)
Even a fit Farrell I don’t understand at 12 though. What exactly does he bring?
Power? Nope
Speed? Nope
Guile? Nope
Fast feet? Nope
Clever distribution? Nope
Can anyone help?
I suppose he is reasonable defensively but for me he tackles too high and as a result is often bounced off.
Oh. Almost forgot. He can kick penalties
As for Barritt playing next to him…Most selections I can just about glimpse an idea behind. This one I’m absolutely clueless on. If Catt wants to bring the back 3 into the centre more, he can do it with anyone at 13 – Burrell say.
Actually, I feel sorry for Burrell. One of England’s stand-out players in the 6 nations, fit again and yet over-looked for a player who makes Davy Wilson look speedy
I am clinging to the thought that this is all a smokescreen to throw the journos off the scent and he’ll actually announce a backline of Ford, Eastmond (assuming not injured, otherwise Burrell) and Burrell / Slade / Joseph
If not, then I think we will have witnessed the worst bit of selection since the Andy Robinson years.
Farrell and Barritt in the centres. I just smacked my head on my desk. Getting some funny looks from my colleagues now.
Worst centre partnership possible. We had that in SL’s first game back in 2012. Have we come no further than that? We couldn’t have bought a try. Hodgeson scored them all with charge-downs.
Just can’t understand the calls for JJ. Been there done that, not an international centre. Same as Allen, great club centre but doesn’t have the next gear for international level. Tuilagi, 12T and Burrell have all shown they can compete at this level and should be our centres. Barritt actually does a good job holding things together in their absence. Never going to set the world alight, but does a job for the team. With the other two injured, got to be Barritt and Burrell for me. If Billy is fit, it should be him and Burrell. Billy isn’t on fine form at the moment, but give him some more experience because he is obviously the only playmaker we have in the centres. Can’t agree with playing Farrell at 12 except as injury cover during a game.
May has proven he can cut it at this level but needs space in which to operate. Have to agree that with Farrell and Barritt, he may as well forget about quick ball.
Can’t understand why Foden isn’t being given a chance. What has he done to upset SL.
Got to win this game, and Samoa are no mugs. Personally would limit changes and go for
Marler, Webber, Wilson
Attwood, Lawes
Haskell, Robshaw, Morgan
Youngs, Ford
12T, Burrell
May, Yarde, Brown.
Why oh why are we getting so many injuries. No other team seems to suffer as badly. Might be an interesting topic for a post, if anyone is an authority!
Agree with most of what you’ve said. Completely understand the use or Barritt in the first two tests bu the makes no sense this weekend.
I do however understand the logic of Farrell at 12. Eastmond is injured and Twelvetrees looks woefully out of form – what other play making centre do we have? He has a good kicking game and is very good off the tee (people seem to play this down but it so vital at this level). We know he can hold up defensively. To be he offers a similar game to Twelvetrees – but much better off the tee. With Farrell playing, Ford can concentrate on what he does best and not worry about kicking from the tee. They also know eachother very well.
Barritt at 13 if Burrell is fit is absolute madness though. We need someone in the centres to get us over the gainline. For Ford/Farrell/Eastmond to be effective the need to working off of decent front foot ball.
At the beginning of the week I though making lots of changes in the pack was a good shout – now I’m not so sure. The media reaction to a couple of losses to NZ and SA has been absolutely mental. Yes we still have a long way to go but the disaster that is being portrayed baffles me.
I’d go:
Marler, Hartley, Brookes, Attwood, Lawes, Haskell, Robshaw, Morgan, Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Burrell, Watson, Brown
Don’t change the back 3 – let them make some breaks and get a bit of confidence. The only person I’d want to see get game time is Brookes as he looks like he could be very good. Haskell and Morgan come in for form reasons, not resting or rotating. Same goes for Youngs. Ford/Farrell seems our only real option with Eastmond out.
Farrell has a good kicking game? Really? Goal kicking yes. But his kicking from hand has been dreadful in the last 2 weeks.
Personally don’t base my opinion of a players skillset on one and a half matches – particularly when they’ve barely played any rugby in 6 months.
So you ignore the evidence of your eyes. I’m not a Farrell hater, but playing him now will ruin his confidence and does him no favours
What evidence I am ignoring? I’ve mentioned numerous times on here that he does not look fit. However with Eastmond out I understand playing him at 12 this weekend. He does have the skill set to play there long term and against Samoa I don’t blame SL for wanting to see how a Ford/Farrell axis works.
Agree long term it could work but disagree with doing it this weekend – Farrell looks so off the pace, quite literally, and should go back and get his head down at Sarries for a couple of weekends.
Even with injury issues there are still Barritt, Burrell and 12T to choose from, the latter 2 who formed a good partnership in the 6N. Ford and Farrell will be tried at some stage but I don’t think now is the right time, and certainly not with Barritt at 13.
No he doesn’t have the skill-set to play 12 at the top level. What would he bring to the position? See my post above in reply to Dazza
What team in the top 10 is going to look at Farrell playing 12 and quake because he has the ability to rip their defense open?
To be fair 12T keeps slipping from my mind – wouldn’t mind seeing him play with Burrell. I have far more of an issue with Barritt over Burrell than I do with Farrell though. That being said – he did look way off the pace, and I feel for him being made a scapegoat by the media when it is not necessarily his fault.
And Pablito – massively disagree with you. His kicking game, when on point.he is fit, is very good. His distribution is also good, but only when he is forced onto the front foot. At 10, if his pack goes backwards he tends to sit deeper and deeper. From 12, Ford would force him forward. His defence is good.
Look at other top sides – Toomua for Australia – does he offer loads more? Nope. SA and NZ play their bigger ball carriers at 12 where Eng and Australia play them at 13 so you can’t really compare.
Point being – SL wants two ball players at 10/12 – who can both offer kicking games. A Ford/Farrell axis brings that.
Pretty harsh on JJ. Don’t see players should be written off at 21/22. He did OK in SA and was picked when not in such good form for the Argentina tour.
If Eastmond is out then Burrell + JJ is our best available combination, and it’s a good game to try that combination out.
I could get on board with Burrell and JJ – think that offers a good mix. I think with JJ it is – what is he? We know SL likes a real ball player and someone who can break the gain line. Which one of those is he? Really like watching him play though but I just can not see it yet. He either needs to develop Conrad Smith esc hands of the power of a Tuilagi/Burrell. He is obviously much closer to Smith is his style but he isn’t really that type of player either.
If Eastmond can’t play, then I can just about get on board with Farrell at 12. I think Eastmond is the best play-making centre England have. 12T chucks nice looking long passes, but that doesn’t mean he is a good distributor or decision maker.
When I watch Eastmond play, I notice how many yards each recipient of his passes makes. This happens at Bath with Joseph outside him, who relies more on footwork, and worked well with Tuilagi in the first NZ test, who is more reliant on his power.
That said, if Eastmond is out, and Farrell plays 12, I can’t understand the selection of Barritt. Him and Farrell are too blunt to be in the same back line together. Would rather see Ford, Barritt, Burrell for the Samoa game.
Can’t believe I’m suggesting this but would anyone rather see Goode at 15 as the second playmaker and kicking option, gives Brown a rest and then Burrell into the centres?
Both Farrell and Barritt have a lot of credit in the bank, plus they’ve looked great in training (I imagine)
I think you are wrong Jacob
His kicking game can be good but certainly isn’t consistently good. That’s hardly the greatest endorsement.
His running game is non-existent
His passing is adequate, playing by the numbers rather than what’s in front of him
Let’s look at some other sides. Would I have Farrell in front of any of these centres from the recent internationals?
SBW
C Smith
R Crotty
M Fekitoa
T Kuridrani
C Lealifano
S Williams
J Roberts
J Davies
G North
M Bennett
A Dunbar
De Villiers
Serfontein
W Fofana
A Doumoulin
R Henshaw
J Payne
No.
I would rather have any from Burrell, Barritt, Eastmond, 36 (even on current form) ahead of Farrell at i/c – in fact I’d call up Sam Hill or Henry Slade before choosing Farrell or (a name that no one seems to have mentioned) Shane Geraghty
SL may want two ball players at 10/12 with kicking games but if we don’t have fit, in-form players who can fulfill that then he should be changing his tactics
Unfortunately it seems he’d rather shoe-horn players into his tactical strait-jacket, irrespective of their form or fitness, than change his strategy.
So Farrell, a man with a bunch of England caps, starting 10 at Saracens who appear regularly in Prem finals and the later stages of European cups, and a Lions tour to his name; all this and he has only just turned 23, has absolutely no assets what so ever? Can’t kick, run, pass… useless player. Kicking at goal is all you’re giving him.
Do you really believe that? If you do I think it’s madness.
Right now I wouldn’t be against dropping him at all because he clearly isn’t fit but to suggest all of those things are crazy in my opinion.
And how much has he achieved at the top level playing at 12? We’re not talking about him playing at 10 – we are talking about him at 12
I asked you to say what you thought he bought to the position and you came up with his tactical kicking game. Which as we know is not consistent. You say his passing is ‘good’ but only when he is on the front foot.
And that’s all you could come up with. What else does he offer? Which of the centres I’ve listed would you choose Farrell in front of?
He is a good 10 when he is playing in a very structured game with a strong pack a la Saracens. He is a good defender. He is a very good place kicker.
He does not offer guile. He does not offer pace. He does not offer power. He is not, in my opinion, an international standard 12
I did think to pre-face my comment with this point but I didn’t think it was needed – clearly it is.
Yes he has played most of his rugby at 10, but you’ve effectively stated he has no attributes. If that was actually true, how on earth has he achieved all these things?
You’ve quite clearly said he can’t distribute, has an inconsistent kicking game etc etc. Quite incredible that he has achieved all that, even from 10, with no skill set whatsoever.
Specifically on playing 12 – it massively depends what you want from your 12. Toomua/Leiliifano type centres are very similar to Farrell. Neither of those players make breaks – they both act as second 10s to help distribute the ball. If that’s what you want – then yes Farrell can do the job. Is he a similar 12 to Roberts/Nonu? Nope, nor Fafana either.
You’re doing a DonP here Jacob and not reading what I’ve written.
I’ve clearly said that he has the attributes of a “a good 10 when he is playing in a very structured game with a strong pack a la Saracens. He is a good defender. He is a very good place kicker.”
He can distribute but its all by the numbers stuff which is why it only works when the game is structured. If anything falls outside of that, then his game suffers. Also cannot believe you’d argue that his tactical kicking isn’t inconsistent.
He is a decent but limited 10.
So I have not said in any way that he has no skill set. I have said that he does not have the skill set for an international 12
Of all the centres mentioned above, the only one I’d choose him in front of would be Toomua, but that’s ‘cos I don’t think he is an international standard 12 either. Lealifano is – he attacks the line and offloads very well as well as being able to kick and distribute.
Rather than going on about what you think I’ve said, why don’t you explain why you believe he should be playing 12 for England
Massively disagree – also trolling accusations because I don’t agree aren’t really necessarily – I’m sure you’ve seen enough of my comments in here to know that accusation is way off the mark.
“Decent but limited 10.” Again – massively insulting to a guy that has achieved so much in the game at such a young age. If you really undervalue his attributes that much then this is a really pointless debate.
If you read what I said above – it depends what you want from your 12. I’ve actually just seen TRB post a blog about Farrell at 12 so I won’t rehash what they’ve written – it seems they agree with me.