Graham Rowntree has hinted that banned hooker Dylan Hartley is still very much in England’s World Cup thoughts, despite currently serving a ban for headbutting Saracens’ Jamie George at the end of last season.
Hartley’s four week ban will see him ruled out of England’s opening game on September 18th against Fiji, which was enough to see Lancaster and Rowntree rule him out of contention for the initial 31-man squad.
Forwards coach Rowntree, however, maintains that Hartley is still very much in the coaches’ thoughts.
“Look, the whole Dylan situation – it is what is. He is banned,” Rowntree told Sky Sports News. “He is unavailable so I have got to put my resources into the guys that are here and that just so happens to be a couple of young hookers in particular at the moment.
“Going forward, we never discount the possibility of Dylan coming in, if required, as long as he has served his ban.”
Hartley’s chequered disciplinary past saw most people get behind the decision to rule him out of the World Cup squad, with many agreeing that he would represent too much of a liability during what is the most important two months for England rugby since 2003.
Hartley’s rap sheet includes a 26-week ban for eye-gouging, an 11-week suspension for verbally abusing Wayne Barnes in the Premiership final and a three week ban for elbowing an opponent. His past misdemeanours also saw him ruled out of the 2013 Lions tour, after initially being selected.
Rowntree, however, revealed that he has kept in regular contact with the Northampton hooker, but explained why Hartley hadn’t been invited to train with the squad in the same way that the likes of Tom Croft and Ben Foden have.
“Why has he not been here? The guys we have had in the last couple of weeks like Tom Croft, Ben Foden and Joe Simpson have not had a lot of game time with us over the last couple of years so they need to come in and see how we are doing things.
“Dylan has. I trust Dylan. He played in the last game of the Six Nations for us. He is fit. I have been in touch with him regularly and he would be able to come in and slot in if we need him.”
All of which makes it sound like Hartley will be first cab off the rank should one of the hookers sustain an injury after the Fiji game. What do you think of that decision?
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Can you add a button for those who would select him now? Irrelevant of any future injuries?
If the Aussies are going into the whole tournament with two hookers; we can go into the Fiji game with two.
Needs to be picked now – he is the best hooker we have by a mile.
The trouble is Jacob, if that happened now the mgt would drop George, who has looked the best (albeit with limited time). I’m happy for George to get more game time and usurp the useless Youngs (who’d be more use back at centre) so that when Dylan is called up Youngs is no where near the 23.
I hope not! Surely with the experience of Harley and Youngs, Webber’s becomes irrelevant and a trio of Hartley, George and Youngs go?
George comes on and has a stormer vs Fiji ready to steal the 16 shirt for when Hartley starts after that. Simple!
Youngs is not a good enough lineout thrower, simple as
Sorry if this is a bit “Captain Hindsight”, but recent evidence shows that Hartley should be training with the squad and in contention. His situation is no different to, say, Brad Barritt’s, who I believe is carrying a knock? If Barritt has enough credit in the bank to force inclusion in Thursday’s squad without playing in either of the France games, so does Hartley, especially on the back of the performances of some of the other hookers in the two games.
I refuse to hang Youngs out to dry after one bad game, as I was calling for his start at the end of the Six Nations when Hartley was below his best. I’d start him against Ireland with George on the bench.
ONE BAD GAME!!!! His dodgy throwing has been a problem for a while, I can think of NZ at home in 2013 and France away in 2014 when his throws cost us key possession and ultimately the match. His club stats this year looked good so I had hoped he had overcome this, but Saturday quashed those hopes. He lost 3 throws and was very fortunate not to have got called on few others.
Youngs is statistically the most accurate line out thrower we have (excluding Hartley). I thought it was George, but according to stats for the 2014/2015 Premiership season, Youngs has a better percentage.
The problem at the weekend was not really Youngs’ throwing but that France caught us out (literally). My recollection was only one call for not straight for Youngs. There were a couple of French throws to the front of the lineout that were pretty suspect, but didn’t get called. Sometimes you get away with them, sometimes you don’t.
To start claiming Youngs is useless and Hartley should walk back in is a bit harsh. Yes Hartley is a consistently good player, especially in the lineout. But he is also a consistently dirty player, as the list of offences above prove. He should have learnt his lesson when he lost his chance to play for the Lions, but he didn’t. If someone gets injured after his ban is served, then bring him back in. But I would not bring him in just because of one or two bad days in the lineout.
This is exactly what I tried to say on the other thread – yes Youngs throwing wasn’t perfect (a few were too low) but they weren’t really ‘not straight’. It was that combined with really poor and obvious calls to the middle which the French could pick off.
I think Hartley has always been helped by having Wood and Lawes his club mates there and Youngs was better when he had Parling. There are so many tiny variables in timing, height, speed of lifting when you change line out personnel that it makes a huge difference who you work with. If anything Youngs is bad at adapting to new jumpers rather than this actual throwing… I think it will come. I watch him week-in, week-out with Leicester and never see these issues. I will not be panicking until after the Ireland game if there is a repeat performance. Lawes really needs to help him out better as well.
To add to my last comment I think George is probably a slightly better scrummager than Youngs. George is three inches taller and a stone heavier than Youngs, which adds a bit more balance to a front row combination of Marler 6ft, George 6ft and Cole 6ft 2.
He’d be in my 31 man squad regardless of any injury. He missed a grand total of SIX throws throughout the entirety of 2014. 94/100 throws resulted in us winning the ball, and I distinctly remember that we should have had a penalty for one of those “steals” from O’Connell.
Best set piece forward on the planet.
As I predicted on 27th May 2015, b 4 the RFU ruled on Pigsy’s latest very short ban (6th!!???), it looks very much like Pigface will play at the RWC 2015.
England are already panicking as, without this most experienced Front Row player and utter yob, their RWC 2015 aspirations have taken a really serious hit in the 2 games with France.
I said in May that the ban would be so short as to allow Hartley to play in the 2015 tournament.
I predicted a ban lasting a few weeks and that was exactly was Pigface got. If selected now he misses the 1st game v Fiji only.
What a total disgrace the RFU are for the short length of his latest ban (5th for violent play, so much the spirit of the game, fair play at all times etc etc) and also the England coaching staff/Rowntree to prepare the path for the Pigface to return.
A convenient injury to one of the other selected England hookers after the Fiji game awaits unless that is the ever-violent Pigface is already included in the 31-man squad b 4 then!
Maybe the early naming of the squad allows Pigface to get a weekend training in with England b 4 Bank Holiday?
The RFU are rather good at this sort of thing as History proves.
Said it a few times, bring him in now – should have been training with squad anyway in my opinion. I don’t really understand Rowntree reasoning, sounds to me like SL felt forced to ditch him but has realized how reliant we are on the guy. He will have finished his ban after Fiji and be available foe majority of tournament so for me it doesn’t count as an issue in the same way Tuilagi indiscretion does. I don’t see any reason for SL to deny himself the best hooker he has when he is available after ‘ paying his dues’
Hartley for 50-60 minutes, George for the last 20-30 minutes gets him good experience. With regards to Hartley’s dicipline, I would rather lose a man for 10 minutes, then have almost every scrum and every lineout fall to pot. Hartley needs to improve his dicipline but he’s still the best hooker in England.
What is more important to the nation?Winning the World Cup or Stu’s principles?He’s already left Armitage Strettle and Abendanon in France.He must’nt leave Dylan watching on tv.
A bit off topic but seeing as Lancaster seems to be taking a long time deciding on his best squad for 2015, i thought I would help him get a head start with picking his 2019 squad:
J.Marler (29) M.Vunipola (28)
J.George (30) L.Cowan-Dickie (26) M.Haywood (27)
K.Brookes (29) Cole (32) P.Hill (23)
J.Launchbury (28) C.Ewels (23)
C.Lawes (30) G.Kruis (29)
M.Itoje (24) J.Chisholm (23)
L.Ludlam (23)
B.Vunipola (26) B.Morgan (30)
B.Youngs (30) J.Simpson (31) B.Spencer (27)
G.Ford (26) O.Farrell (30)
S.Burgess (30)
J.Joseph (28) H.Slade (26)
J.Nowell (26) H.Packman (23)
A.Watson (25) C.Wade (29)
E.Daly (26)
Like it!
Although reckon Jack Clifford will be in there somewhere and possibly Kyle Sinckler if he lives up to his talent
Good call, swap Clifford for either Ewels or Kruis and swap Sinkler for Hill
Still no Dave Ewers? What HAS this lad done wrong?
Forgot Ewers! He’ll only be 29. Definitely in there if he keeps up or improves his form (should have been in this year#s squad as well)
Ewers for Chisholm it is then